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Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

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Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#161
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines are often brought up as becoming cheaper with less regulations. While it was mostly manufacturers building more efficient aircraft, people are generally willing to trade leg room for a cheaper fair. That’s exactly the kind of thing regulators and the free market may come to a different compromise. Worse, but cheaper is often quite appealing.

During the era of heavy airline regulation in the US, the Los Angeles to San Francisco route was significantly (about 4x IIRC) cheaper than other routes of similar length. This was because it was the only (popular) route of this length that didn't cross state lines, and so the onerous federal airline regulations did not apply. So no, it wasn't just manufacturers building more efficient aircraft.

Average ticket prices didn’t suddenly fall anything like 75% within 2 or even 10 years of reduced regulations. Which should make it clear it wasn’t onerous federal regulations causing that difference.

Adjusted for inflation and including fees domestic round-trip airfare in 1979 averaged $617.47 vs $366.92 in 2016 a 40% drop. Which looks pretty good, though there was that 1979 oil crisis which needs to be accounted for which complicates the inflation comparison.

Meanwhile Jets become 70% more fuel efficient between 1967 and 2007. As airliners use a mix of newer and older aircraft there’s a delay before improvements affect prices. But most of that improvement was front loaded so by 2018 domestic airlines where getting 58 pay passenger miles per gallon of fuel an unheard of number in 1979 which again also happened to be the middle of an oil crisis.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#162
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines are often brought up as becoming cheaper with less regulations. While it was mostly manufacturers building more efficient aircraft, people are generally willing to trade leg room for a cheaper fair. That’s exactly the kind of thing regulators and the free market may come to a different compromise. Worse, but cheaper is often quite appealing.

Anything else you've noticed the free market compromising on re: air travel.

free luggage, free meals (on shorter flights), legroom, time on the ground and flight cancelation headaches (far less of a problem if you don't offer connecting flights like Ryanair).

If you get all of these right, price decreases, demand increases, average seat occupancy goes way up, and that causes the per-seat price to drop even more, in a feedback loop. If your costs are low enough, you can go for a direct model instead of a hub-and-spoke model, catering more towards casual travelers who just want to go somewhere instead of the business types which need to go from X to Y at time Z, no matter the cost. THe direct model drives the cost down even more, as you only need one flight instead of two, and don't have to worry about the insane costs of passengers stranded at your hub when something goes wrong.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, if you got rid of or reduced copyright, publishers would just find other ways to engage in cartel-like behavior and continue to screw everyone. I can’t think of any case where regulation/government was reduced and companies responded with something less profitable for the company.

How they respond depends on whether the regulation causes or mitigates market power. for example,Something like deregulating the last mile for internet is probably not going to end well because the incumbents control that and that is the mote that is expensive enough to recreate that it causes monopoly. Copyright causes monopoly because it stops marginal price being able to equal marginal cost by allowing only one pe…

> that is the mote that is expensive enough to recreate

A somewhat large part of why it is so expensive to recreate is all the regulations and burreaucracy involved in laying cables along public roads. Make that significantly easier and cheaper, and you suddenly need those last-mile regulations a lot less.

Network effects are where you actually need regulation.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#164

> one hardcover copy of Cook’s latest novel costs the library $18, it costs $55 to lease a digital copy I buy the used paperback used for $3. > a price that can't be haggled with publishers. Of course they can haggle. They just don't know how to.

This is a poorly informed assessment. Nearly every single library system is subject to “take it or leave it” pricing and terms by publishers. The libraries need the publishers to purchase materials from, the publisher likely wishes the library was gone so they can think they are selling more product now.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#165
post #164

> one hardcover copy of Cook’s latest novel costs the library $18, it costs $55 to lease a digital copy I buy the used paperback used for $3. > a price that can't be haggled with publishers. Of course they can haggle. They just don't know how to.

This is a poorly informed assessment. Nearly every single library system is subject to “take it or leave it” pricing and terms by publishers. The libraries need the publishers to purchase materials from, the publisher likely wishes the library was gone so they can think they are selling more product now.

The library can buy the stuff used and the publishers make nothing off of such sales.

I buy nearly all my books used.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the free market is working pretty well. http://libgen.rs/ The government-granted monopoly, not so much.

How is this a market if Boone is paying? If anything, this is communism? You can’t even have a market of IP without government granted ownership of IP. This tired old trope that Government vs market doesn’t work here

> You can’t even have a market of IP without government granted ownership of IP.

What on earth are you thinking? For essentially all of human history, every work of art was produced for the market, and it was impossible to own any IP.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#167
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that book prices are rising faster than _anything else in the economy_ the market place isn't working at all. Let them eat competition.

Huh? In the United States books have inflated by -0.1% per year since 1997, compared with the overall economy which inflated at 2.46% per year on average during the same period. Because of the stiff competition. Unless you mean specifically textbooks, which are inflating because piracy has destroyed the demand (the annual revenue of the textbook market is down ~33% since 2014, despite increases in both prices and enr…

Why start at 2014?

https://archive.attn.com/stories/1164/heres-exactly-why-coll...

Between 1975 and 2014 college books outpaced inflation over three times.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#168
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a poorly informed assessment. Nearly every single library system is subject to “take it or leave it” pricing and terms by publishers. The libraries need the publishers to purchase materials from, the publisher likely wishes the library was gone so they can think they are selling more product now.

The library can buy the stuff used and the publishers make nothing off of such sales. I buy nearly all my books used.

Libraries cannot buy used because they need the asset prepared for circulation. This includes a protective cover, barcoding, etc. They usually have a vendor do this preparation, and the assets (books, usually) are often not the same as what you would find in a store, they can be different sizes to fit in Automatic Materials Handling Systems, have more robust binding, etc.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#169

[flagged]

Awful take dude, you don't realize that libraries are currenty on the front lines of America's problems where in a alternative universe, the nation should have done the job not to mention that libraries are under attack by mostly all fronts (governments, politicians, publishers, copyright cartel, right wing zealots just to name a few). https://www.axios.com/2024/02/18/libraries-ebooks-hoopla-lib... https://news.ycomb…

Thank you for that link; it's clarifying.

I think we're actually in agreement that the "library" part of a library is obsolete; it's just (as I understand) you and the sibling comments are using a neologistic definition of "library" that's unrelated to mine. Your link explains it as a place for social workers to care for clients. I'm fine with closing libraries and replacing them with that stuff—I'm not going to quibble on language, but that is not a library.

I should have considered this alternative definition before I wrote my comment, and how I phrased it. I see now exactly how it's been misinterpreted, and that people think I'm attacking unhoused people or something.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#170

How about eliminating libraries and provide vouchers for Kindle Unlimited for the poor? Work with Amazon to create some kind of Amazon library using Kindle as the platform. People with money don’t need public libraries — you can buy pretty much anything easily. People spend $18 on a McDonalds meal, $9.99 for an ebook is nothing. Big city libraries are mostly homeless shelters at this point. I’m not going to a public…

I am on the commission overseeing a major public library system. I strongly disagree with your interpretation of what libraries do. First, the real estate presence of the library is extremely important. Children's storytime is one of the strongest drivers of foot traffic. Some of the buildings act as designated cooling centers during heat waves. They are community centers and gathering spaces for local organizations.…

My city has a population of 800k.

The library's annual budget is $200MM.

I wonder what proportion of the population uses the library system at all. I can't imagine it's more than 25%. If I'm right, the cost is at least $1,000 per library user per year.

This seems like a lot.

(Of the $200MM, only $22MM is spent on books/ebooks/media aka 'collections'.)

The libraries are generally comfortable and well maintained, but given the cost I wonder whether the major functions (books, space, wifi) could be provided more cheaply by Amazon and Wework.

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