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How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

danluu.com

241–250 of 613 posts

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#241
post #231

Related: Too much of technology today doesn't pay attention or even care to the less technologically adept, either. Smartphones in my opinion are a major example of this. I can't tell you the number of people I've meet who barely even or don't even know how to use their devices. It's all black magic to them. The largest problem is the over-dependence on the use of "Gesture Navigation" which is invisible and thus non-…

It appears to me, as an outsider, that interfaces are designed with a "one size fits all" approach, at least at the prestige end of town. Instead of allowing the user to choose design and interaction that works for them, the designer (or product owner) acts as if they know what's best for all users.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#242

> While reviews note that you can run PUBG and other 3D games with decent performance on a Tecno Spark 8C, this doesn't mean that the device is fast enough to read posts on modern text-centric social media platforms or modern text-centric web forums. While 40fps is achievable in PUBG, we can easily see less than 0.4fps when scrolling on these sites. Remember this the next time marketing asks the frontend team to impl…

One time long ago, e-commerce company i worked for decided to add tiktok analytics to the front-end. The dev team added the changes but were worried it might impact performance and UX. As a solution we were told to run the performance tests to check it.

The performance tests were created to mimic user behaviour but only involved company APIs. Not third party requests. No one in the top level, cared about this bit of information. We ran this performance test and saw the the response times are almost the same so it's time to pat ourselves on the back and move on ...

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#243

This article is basically unreadable for me 48 y/o on desktop). In the dev tools I added the following to the body to make it readable: font-size: 18px; line-height: 1.5em; max-width: 38rem; Now look how readable (and beautiful) it is. I read a lot of Dan Luu's posts, and each time I have to do this sort of thing to make it readable. Seriously, techies, it's an extra 64 Bytes to make your page more readable.

> In the dev tools I added the following to the body to make it readable

For cases when you don't agree with styles there is Reader Mode. Your way works also, but Reader Mode just simplier, it is just one click away.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#244

I really wish he compared an m3 Mac to a 6 year old intel chip and not some random processor I’ve never seen or experienced that I’m not sure is even available in the usa

I can vouch that my 2017 MacBook Pro struggles with all kinds of tasks, especially web ones.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joel Spolsky on Excel bloat, 2001: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/03/23/strategy-letter-iv...

That was 2001. Core frequencies aren't going up at 2001 rates anymore. (And although Moore's law has continued, it is only just. Core freqs have all but topped out, it feels like.) Memory prices seem to have stalled, and even non-volatile storage feels like it's stalled. My computer in 1998, compared to it's predecessor, storage was going up in size at ~43% YoY. It was an amazing time to be alive; the 128 MiB thumbdr…

> "And although Moore's law has continued, it is only just."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_count has a table of transistor count over time. 2001 was Intel Pentium III with 45 million transistors and nVidia NV2A GPU with 60 million. 2023 has Apple M2 Ultra with 134 billion transistors and AMD Instinct CPU with 146 billion, and AMD Aqua Vanjaram CDNA3 GPU with 153 billion. That's some ~3,000x more, about a doubling every two years.

Core frequencies aren't going up, but amount of work per clock cycle is - SIMD instructions are up, memory access and peripheral access bandwidth is up, cache sizes are up, branch predictors are better, multi-core is better.

> "E.g., 1 TiB seems to be ~$50"

You can get a 12TB HDD from NewEgg for $99.99, Joel's blog said $0.0071 per megabyte and this is $0.0000083 per megabyte, ten thousand times cheaper in 23 years. Even after switching to more expensive SSDs 1TB for $50 is $0.00005 per megabyte, a hundred times cheaper than Joel mentioned - and that switch to SSDs likely reduced the investment in HDD tech. And as you say "I'm not sure I'd put more storage in a new machine than what I put in a 2011 build" few people need more storage unless they are video or gaming enthusiasts, or companies.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#246

as a data point youtube is unusable on raspberry pi 3. This happened within the last year, because prior to that you could "watch" videos at about 10-15FPS which is enough, for instance, to get repair videos in a shop setting (ask me how i know). When the raspberry pi model B - the first one released - came out, you could play 1080p video from storage, watch youtube, play games . I'm not sure what youtube is doing (o…

YouTube is definitely getting heavier. My early 2021 MacBook Air (Intel) now gets random video pauses under moderate load, something that never used to happen.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#247

> While reviews note that you can run PUBG and other 3D games with decent performance on a Tecno Spark 8C, this doesn't mean that the device is fast enough to read posts on modern text-centric social media platforms or modern text-centric web forums. While 40fps is achievable in PUBG, we can easily see less than 0.4fps when scrolling on these sites. Remember this the next time marketing asks the frontend team to impl…

I imagine it has more to do with the monstrous website design than the tracking scripts. New reddit vs old reddit or desktop reddit vs mobile Reddit shouldn't be that different in terms of tracking. But the newer ones run like ass.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#248
I would still add that users running out of monthly mobile data volume are still a big issue, likely bigger than slow phones. They can't load most websites with 64 kbit/s, because they are multiple megabytes large, often without good reason.

For example, when Musk took over Twitter, he actually fixed this issue for some time, I tested it. But now they have regressed again. The website will simply not show your timeline on a slow connection. It will show an error message instead. Why would slow connections result in an error message?!

A simple solution that e.g. Facebook (though apparently not Threads) and Google use, is to first load the text content and the (large) images later. But many websites instead don't load anything and just time out. Probably because of overly large dependencies like heavy JavaScript libraries and things like that.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#249
> Surely, for example, multiple processors are no help to TeX

But TeX was designed to run on a single CPU-core, so no surprise here. I wonder what TeX could become if all Knuth had at the time a multicore machine with cores managing maybe 0.1 MIPS each (or even lower). Like what the world would become if we lived in a counterfactual world where Intel and its buddies starting in 1970s boosted not the frequency and instruction per second per core but number of cores?

My take we'd switched to functional-style programming at 1980s with immutable data, created tools to describe multistage pipelines with each stage issuing tasks into a queue, while cores concurrently picking tasks from the queue. TeX would probably have a simplified and extra fast parser that could cut input into chunks to feed them into a fullblown and slow parser which would be a first stage of a pipeline, and then these pipelines somehow would converge into an output stream. TeX probably would prefer to use more of lexical scoping, to reduce interaction between chunks, or maybe it would make some kind of a barrier for pipelines where they all stop and wait for propagation of things like `\it` from its occurrence to the end.

This counterfactual world seems much more exciting to me than the real one, though maybe I wouldn't be excited if I lived there.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#250
I've always wondered why people removed parts of the page when they were scrolled out. Like, don't you think the browser would already optimize for that? And even if it's not stored in the DOM, it's still being stored in the JavaScript's memory. It's frustrating when people try to reimplement optimizations that the browser already does better.
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