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How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

danluu.com

201–210 of 613 posts

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#201
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voice, video, realtime interaction, a devoted user base, an incredible amount of money…

What do you mean by voice and video? Why would I want to have voice in a forum? I think that would be akin to receiving voice messages in messengers. Or do you mean, that for these kinds of things a widget can be displayed? That certainly is possible in old style forums. It is just HTML, an embed code away.

[deleted]

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#202

Dan's point about being aware of the different levels of inequality in the world is something I strongly agree with, but that should also include the middle-income countries, especially in Latin America and Southeast Asia. For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs, and a RAM/CPU profile resembling a decade-old US flagship. That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the exp…

> That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the experience will probably be on the unpleasantly slow side. ... an alternate "lite/basic" mode Why does this need to be the "alternate" choice though? What does current Discourse provide that e.g. PhpBB or the DLang forum do not? (Other than mobile friendly design, which in a sane world shouldn't involve more than a few tweaks to a "responsive" CSS stylesheet).

I like the scroll view in discourse. Makes it super easy to follow a thread. The subthreads and replies are also easier to use. The search is better, the ability to upvote makes it better for some use cases, and in general phpbb is a mess in terms of actually being able to see what's useful and what threads are relevant.

I think flipping the question makes more sense, why do you think some forums switched to or started using discourse instead of just using phpbb? I can guarantee you that it's not just to follow a fad or whatever, most niche or support forums don't care about that.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I saw this blog posted on HN I wondered how it could possibly be popular with such horrendous layout. The conclusion I came to is that the audience is very tech-savvy and is used to activating Reader Mode when they encounter pages like this.

I went with the other techie solution: resizing my browser window.

How do you do that on mobile?

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#204

This article is basically unreadable for me 48 y/o on desktop). In the dev tools I added the following to the body to make it readable: font-size: 18px; line-height: 1.5em; max-width: 38rem; Now look how readable (and beautiful) it is. I read a lot of Dan Luu's posts, and each time I have to do this sort of thing to make it readable. Seriously, techies, it's an extra 64 Bytes to make your page more readable.

The first time I saw this blog posted on HN I wondered how it could possibly be popular with such horrendous layout. The conclusion I came to is that the audience is very tech-savvy and is used to activating Reader Mode when they encounter pages like this.

It's more of a hipster thing imo. For some people since it's minimalist and looks "old" , it must be good. Like I get keeping it simple but man it's CSS..

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#205

Dan's point about being aware of the different levels of inequality in the world is something I strongly agree with, but that should also include the middle-income countries, especially in Latin America and Southeast Asia. For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs, and a RAM/CPU profile resembling a decade-old US flagship. That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the exp…

> That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the experience will probably be on the unpleasantly slow side. ... an alternate "lite/basic" mode Why does this need to be the "alternate" choice though? What does current Discourse provide that e.g. PhpBB or the DLang forum do not? (Other than mobile friendly design, which in a sane world shouldn't involve more than a few tweaks to a "responsive" CSS stylesheet).

I was thinking about this when I saw this post earlier today.

Why shouldn't the default be: does this website work in Lynx? I think that's a damn good baseline.

And in response to the other parent post, on a (almost) new iPhone, both news sites & Twitter continuously crash and reload for me. I'm not sure what the state of these other popular sites are because I don't use them.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#206

Dan's point about being aware of the different levels of inequality in the world is something I strongly agree with, but that should also include the middle-income countries, especially in Latin America and Southeast Asia. For example, a user with a data plan with a monthly limit in the single-digit GBs, and a RAM/CPU profile resembling a decade-old US flagship. That's good enough to use Discourse at all, but the exp…

It's not even just the middle-income countries—I have an iPhone 13, so only three years old, on a US wifi connection with high speed broadband, and it can't handle the glitzy bloat of the prospectus for one of my ETFs. I don't understand why a prospectus shouldn't just be a PDF anyway, but it baffles me that someone would put so much bloated design into a prospectus that a recent phone can't handle it.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#207

> While reviews note that you can run PUBG and other 3D games with decent performance on a Tecno Spark 8C, this doesn't mean that the device is fast enough to read posts on modern text-centric social media platforms or modern text-centric web forums. While 40fps is achievable in PUBG, we can easily see less than 0.4fps when scrolling on these sites. Remember this the next time marketing asks the frontend team to impl…

These days they coerce the dev team into implementing a tag manager so they can add their filthy trackers without asking the dev team.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#208
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means no ublock origin Talk about a catch-22 situation. The modern web is useless without adblocking. Especially when you get forever scrolling pages with random ads stuffed in there.

As a web developing illiterate, I wonder how hard would be writing a browser extension that loads a page, does infinite scroll in memory and in background, then while it is still loading the infinite stuff, splits the content in pages and shows them instead, so that the user can go back and forth to page numbers. This wouldn't reduce the network and system load, however navigating the results would be much more frien…

Problem is, "infinite scroll" often is infinite, meaning it will load an ass load of data in the background and take up a ton of memory, and the user may never even end up looking at that data.

I really hate the load on scroll (especially Google Drive's implementation which is absolute trash, and half the time I'll scroll too fast and it will just miss a bunch of files and I'll have to refresh the page and try again), but a better hack might be an extension that scrolls a page or two ahead for you and stores that in memory. If it was smart enough to infinitely scroll websites that are actually finite (like google drive) that would be amazing though.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#209

> While reviews note that you can run PUBG and other 3D games with decent performance on a Tecno Spark 8C, this doesn't mean that the device is fast enough to read posts on modern text-centric social media platforms or modern text-centric web forums. While 40fps is achievable in PUBG, we can easily see less than 0.4fps when scrolling on these sites. Remember this the next time marketing asks the frontend team to impl…

The sad part being that traditional marketing cares very little about these users outside of the aggregation parts.

When the goal is to make people pay, a base strategy is to target user who are already spending money. So "fast enough on a current [device sales team is using]" becomes the baseline, and optimizing for older/weaker/cheaper environments isn't an proposition that will convince.

Except when you're ad supported. Then the balance will be a bit more in the middle.

Re: How web bloat impacts users with slow devices

#210
The web is a communication medium: having bad delivery is going to impact the efficacy of the message. I've worked as both a developer and a designer, and as a developer I've certainly had to push back against content-focused people requesting things they didn't realize were, frankly, bananas. Tech isn't their job, so it was my job to surface those problems before they arose. However, as a designer, I've also had to push back against developers that refused to acknowledge that technical purity is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Something looking the same in lynx and firefox isn't a useful goal in any situation I've encountered, and the only people that think a gopher resource has better UX than a modern webpage stare at code editors all day long.

No matter who it is, when people visualize how to solve a problem, they see how their area of concern contributes more clearly than others'. It's easy to visualize how our contributions will help solve a problem, and also hard to look past how doing something else will negatively impact your tasks. In reality, this medium requires a nuanced balance of considerations that depend on what you need to communicate, why, and to whom. Being useful on a team requires knowing when to interject with your professional expertise, but also know when it's more important to trust other professionals to do their jobs.

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