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Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

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Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#11

Post by DataDive »

Peregrine1 wrote: post #7
pton_xd wrote: post #6

A very tricky situation. On the one hand, I'm very pro-liberty and firmly believe every human has a right to decide what substances to engage with. On the other hand, it may be that the changes in human behavior elicited from consuming some drugs are just fundamentally incompatible with our collective vision of a healthy society. How can this be reconciled? At the very least, anti-social / anti-societal behavior, eg…

There are simple, expensive answers: highly diligent social workers focusing on homelessness outreach + massive affordable housing construction that crunches housing prices. Regulate the substances but have them available to addicts, and make sure fentanyl is out of the supply chain, and make selling drugs outside the regulated system a felony. We’re just not willing to pay the bills.

The people that are proposing the bills are not the same that pay the bills.

The same people that talk talk will pull a NIMBY.

Same with politicians, propose something bold and daring, just not in their lobbyst backyard.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#12

Post by Dig1t »

armchairhacker wrote: post #3

Because people are bad at nuance. The entire reason the decriminalization failed was because it had no nuance. It copied something that worked in a much different culture, and didn’t copy the other supports that caused it to work. Nothing to address the other side, the benefits of jailing addicts (i.e. preventing them from committing other crimes).

Which culture did it copy?

Are you talking about Portugal?

Last I read they had a similarly disastrous outcome with the policy, though it took a longer to break down.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#13

Post by mirashii »

Dig1t wrote: post #12
armchairhacker wrote: post #3

Because people are bad at nuance. The entire reason the decriminalization failed was because it had no nuance. It copied something that worked in a much different culture, and didn’t copy the other supports that caused it to work. Nothing to address the other side, the benefits of jailing addicts (i.e. preventing them from committing other crimes).

Which culture did it copy? Are you talking about Portugal? Last I read they had a similarly disastrous outcome with the policy, though it took a longer to break down.

On Oregon, it's quite possible that the policy is less a disaster than the implementation and lack of cooperation in enacting the policies. https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/10/police-issue-few...

On Portugul, it's worth asking why it's failing after many years of being such a success that the model was copied around the world. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...

> After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by the state to nonprofit groups, including the street teams that engage with people who use drugs. The country is now moving to create a new institute aimed at reinvigorating its drug prevention programs.

> Twenty years ago, “we were quite successful in dealing with the big problem, the epidemic of heroin use and all the related effects,” Goulão said in an interview with The Washington Post. “But we have had a kind of disinvestment, a freezing in our response … and we lost some efficacy.”

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#14

Post by presentation »

Peregrine1 wrote: post #7
pton_xd wrote: post #6

A very tricky situation. On the one hand, I'm very pro-liberty and firmly believe every human has a right to decide what substances to engage with. On the other hand, it may be that the changes in human behavior elicited from consuming some drugs are just fundamentally incompatible with our collective vision of a healthy society. How can this be reconciled? At the very least, anti-social / anti-societal behavior, eg…

There are simple, expensive answers: highly diligent social workers focusing on homelessness outreach + massive affordable housing construction that crunches housing prices. Regulate the substances but have them available to addicts, and make sure fentanyl is out of the supply chain, and make selling drugs outside the regulated system a felony. We’re just not willing to pay the bills.

Not saying you’re wrong in the context of your locale, but there are many places around the world that are not plagued with these problems and have dealt with them in very different ways.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#15

Post by presentation »

standardUser wrote: post #5

Decriminalization is a half-measure that's doomed to fail. The drugs are still the same impure crap that they were before decriminalization, leading to the same overdoses and deaths. And the people selling the drugs are the same violent criminal groups that were selling them before decriminalization, except now they are de facto endorsed by the government (where else are people suppose to buy the drugs they are now a…

I’m inclined to think that even if every drug on the street were pure, the problem would remain.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#16

Post by standardUser »

presentation wrote: post #15
standardUser wrote: post #5

Decriminalization is a half-measure that's doomed to fail. The drugs are still the same impure crap that they were before decriminalization, leading to the same overdoses and deaths. And the people selling the drugs are the same violent criminal groups that were selling them before decriminalization, except now they are de facto endorsed by the government (where else are people suppose to buy the drugs they are now a…

I’m inclined to think that even if every drug on the street were pure, the problem would remain.

Overdose deaths would decline dramatically. I think those saved lives are enough justification to give it a try, particularly given the ongoing failure of every other approach.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#17

Post by DinaCoder98 »

pton_xd wrote: post #6

A very tricky situation. On the one hand, I'm very pro-liberty and firmly believe every human has a right to decide what substances to engage with. On the other hand, it may be that the changes in human behavior elicited from consuming some drugs are just fundamentally incompatible with our collective vision of a healthy society. How can this be reconciled? At the very least, anti-social / anti-societal behavior, eg…

I'd agree if our society had figured out any sane way to respond to crime in the first place, but that seems even worse than our barely extant resources for drug addiction in the first place. Somehow we're more willing to pay out the ass to make people feel bad than we are to make them feel better.

Re: Why is Oregon about to re-criminalize psychedelics in response to opioid crisis?

#18

Post by q3gqw3e4tgw »

pton_xd wrote: post #6

A very tricky situation. On the one hand, I'm very pro-liberty and firmly believe every human has a right to decide what substances to engage with. On the other hand, it may be that the changes in human behavior elicited from consuming some drugs are just fundamentally incompatible with our collective vision of a healthy society. How can this be reconciled? At the very least, anti-social / anti-societal behavior, eg…

I don't really buy into the "is it really their fault" argument if I'm being honest and I think humoring it is what holds a lot of this back. If I start pissing in public, picking fights, and generally behaving like nuisance because I'm drunk I'll still be held accountable for my actions. Especially if I become an alcoholic and establish it as a pattern of behavior.

Ultimately, it's part of why I like regulated legalization more then decriminalization, users could at least be pushed from things like cocaine over towards Adderall or some other pharmaceutical that might not be sexy but at least it won't have a 50/50 chance of being cut with fentanyl like a lot of street drugs these days.

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