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Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

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Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2. > I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time. Interestingly, both of these 'symptoms' are completely normal, for people learning a second language.

Especially from languages that don't have the same final and consonant cluster options that English does. For example Richard in Chinese is commonly transliterated as Lichade (lee-char-duh), even though it's only two syllables in English, and Charles is Cha'ersi (char-err-suur).

It's not necessarily the case that Chinese speakers hear the English word "Richard" as three syllables. They might or might not; either way, it isn't possible for them to produce it as two. (Or as three, as you illustrate, but there's a limit to how far you can go in the attempt to produce a foreign name accurately. A country can be named 圣文森特和格林纳丁斯, but that's just not going to work for a person whose name you need to pronounce more than once.)

Hearing problems and production problems are both common, and they overlap heavily, but they don't overlap perfectly.

Speaking of how people perceive foreign words, I'm still interested in the following:

1. Mandarin and Cantonese both use the sounds /s/ (just like English S) and /f/ (ditto, just like English F, though there are Chinese speakers who, like the Japanese, don't distinguish F and H).

2. Neither Mandarin nor Cantonese uses the sound /θ/ (beginning of the English words thorn, thunder, thwack, etc.).

3. Mandarin speakers perceive an English [θ] as being the sound /s/. It's not just that they hear it as something strange but get /s/ when they try to produce it - they cannot hear the difference between [θ] and [s]. I have a friend who learned to produce [θ] accurately, which didn't help much because her English experience is mainly auditory and she ends up using [θ] in words that use /s/.

4. Cantonese speakers are different; for them, an English [θ] is the sound /f/. This means that if a Mandarin speaker and a Cantonese speaker both listen to an English speaker pronounce "thin", neither will necessarily perceive anything particularly strange about the word, but they will disagree with each other's attempts to mimic it.

5. By now, there must be many people who are native speakers of both Cantonese and Mandarin.

6. What do they think when they hear [θ]? My best guess is that they can tell it's a strange sound, but I don't really know.

> Richard in Chinese is commonly transliterated as Lichade (lee-char-duh), even though it's only two syllables in English, and Charles is Cha'ersi (char-err-suur).

I should note that the Mandarin syllable cha is not at all rhotic; the transcription "char" only makes sense if your variety of English doesn't have rhotic vowels.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you write and read fine apparently? I always thougth it was linked.

When I write I leave out a lot ‘the’ and ‘a’ and ‘an’. I have to edit what I write often (and I usually still don’t notice them missing). I have trouble reading when I’m tired. Or fully awake making out handwriting. I have many years of practice adding a’s, the’s, and you’s - people will ignore everything you write if you come across as mentally subpar.

Not trying to pry, but is english your second language?

I assume not, but I have the exact same thing with articles (“the” and “a”/“an”) that you have, except for me it was clearly caused by english being my second (my native language doesn’t have the concept of articles like that at all). And I got much better at it over time too, but it still slips through all the time for me. Less so in writing (even though it still happens not that rarely), but moreso in speech.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#53

I’ve got one of these brains. Dyslexic. I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2. I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time. I have a fantastic memory, a great imagination, and nonstop dreams during the night. I don’t enjoy the dreams anymore, I’m pretty bored of them now tha…

I'm like this too and I've found I thrive with autonomy and burn out in rigid environments.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#54

I’ve got one of these brains. Dyslexic. I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2. I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time. I have a fantastic memory, a great imagination, and nonstop dreams during the night. I don’t enjoy the dreams anymore, I’m pretty bored of them now tha…

> I cannot understand when I mispronounce words. I get corrected often and repeat back the correction but it sounds like what I said the first time.

I have the exact same problem.

I had troubles learning pronunciations when I was a kid, but I never had other learning problems.

As an adult, I struggled enough with pronunciation that I consulted two hearing specialists to determine if there were any issues with my ears. It turns out my hearing is fine.

Is it possible for someone to get a diagnosis for dyslexic based on pronunciation problems only?

I must say I am relieved to finally find someone who shares my experience.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I write I leave out a lot ‘the’ and ‘a’ and ‘an’. I have to edit what I write often (and I usually still don’t notice them missing). I have trouble reading when I’m tired. Or fully awake making out handwriting. I have many years of practice adding a’s, the’s, and you’s - people will ignore everything you write if you come across as mentally subpar.

Not trying to pry, but is english your second language? I assume not, but I have the exact same thing with articles (“the” and “a”/“an”) that you have, except for me it was clearly caused by english being my second (my native language doesn’t have the concept of articles like that at all). And I got much better at it over time too, but it still slips through all the time for me. Less so in writing (even though it sti…

English is 1st. I learned other languages as an adult and have similar pronunciation issues and with hearing my own mistakes.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I write I leave out a lot ‘the’ and ‘a’ and ‘an’. I have to edit what I write often (and I usually still don’t notice them missing). I have trouble reading when I’m tired. Or fully awake making out handwriting. I have many years of practice adding a’s, the’s, and you’s - people will ignore everything you write if you come across as mentally subpar.

Is English your native language?

Yes! Lovely language

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you but it’s a bit depressing. So turn back yea who are happy! Don’t read this. I thought it was something spiritual/mystical when I was younger and I liked that a lot more! And if you wanna keep enjoying dreams collapse my comment right now!!! Here’s the boring nightmare: so… your mind is thinking what comes next? What comes next? And it’s corrected repeatedly by information from the eyes and ears. Maybe…

Thanks for your thoughts. Have you considered lucid dreaming or astral projection? The idea that you step into your dream and control yourself; that you can direct yourself in your dream state to explore whatever-it-is. You can go to places of your choosing, as you are not bound by the body. If you look into these experiences, you find many people who say they learnt about parts of material reality, that they are the…

> If you look into these experiences, you find many people who say they learnt about parts of material reality, that they are then able to verify materially.

I can do this, too, but usually while I'm awake and bored. Reality is quite redundant, and we get all sorts of information from all sorts of sources, and sometimes I can put the puzzle pieces together and deduce things I "shouldn't" have known.

This power doesn't extend to localised information, such as the value of a hidden dice roll, and it's quite mundane. A generalisation of cold-reading. What Sherlock Holmes would call deduction, though it's actually abductive reasoning.

Examples: • Entering a building, imagining design constraints, deducing the presence of exactly one lift, inferring its location, inferring the existence of an extra wing behind the building (to place the lift in the middle), extrapolating observed foot traffic, and guessing which floor and corridor a particular office was. • Listening to someone explain geopolitics for half an hour, and inferring that they're a double-jointed insomniac.

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#58
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still to this day, cannot hear what syllables are in words. ‘Cat’, 1? I hear 2. What syllables do you hear? (I'm assuming you have English as a mother tongue?)

His mind emphasises the consonants instead of the vowels.

that’s right! I hear Cah and a T sound. I never realized it was consonant I was hearing. ‘Button’ has 4? I could have divided all my answers by 2 and passed those quizzes when I was younger…

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you but it’s a bit depressing. So turn back yea who are happy! Don’t read this. I thought it was something spiritual/mystical when I was younger and I liked that a lot more! And if you wanna keep enjoying dreams collapse my comment right now!!! Here’s the boring nightmare: so… your mind is thinking what comes next? What comes next? And it’s corrected repeatedly by information from the eyes and ears. Maybe…

Does that mean you lucid dream since that realization? Or because you know that dreams are just an illusion you are bored? I know dreams are just hallucinations but it doesn't make them any less interesting for me. I lucid dreams sometimes and I enjoy that state the most, so much that when it happens I keep waiting to go lucid every night for next few nights until I forget about it. Some lucid dreams are so cinematic…

Very bored of them. Been lucid dreaming since 6-7. The novelty has worn off when you get so many chances

Re: Abnormal brain structure seen in children with developmental language issues

#60
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you but it’s a bit depressing. So turn back yea who are happy! Don’t read this. I thought it was something spiritual/mystical when I was younger and I liked that a lot more! And if you wanna keep enjoying dreams collapse my comment right now!!! Here’s the boring nightmare: so… your mind is thinking what comes next? What comes next? And it’s corrected repeatedly by information from the eyes and ears. Maybe…

Sleep apnoea can cause a lot of dreams, as it causes you to be half awake. So definitely get yourself tested for that.

I can induce sleep paralysis by sleeping with a pillow over my head pretty consistently. I’ll get double checked. I thought apnea caused tiredness more often but I usually feel pretty good in the morning.
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