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Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

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Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#31

Post by magnetowasright »

perihelions wrote: post #17

[flagged]

> I think it's fine if libraries die out.

Honey, a new copypasta just dropped! This made me laugh almost as much as the first time I read the navy seal 'nothing personnel, kid' copypasta. Amazing.

I genuinely cannot tell if this is sincere or satire (a hallmark of satire!). It's peak HN. I don't know what's funnier, this being sincere or it being a well crafted satire of the utterly insane beliefs of the deeply out-of-touch rand apologists (who genuinely don't seem to be aware that other people experience the world differently than them) that plague the tech industries. Beautiful.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#32

Post by perihelions »

edude03 wrote: post #30
perihelions wrote: post #17

[flagged]

I agree with the premise that ebooks can be a better experience than paper books, I don't agree that pirate libraries can replace, or even serve a similar purpose to physical libraries though.

Ah, I'm not comparing e-books to paper books; rather I'm comparing free libraries of e-books against DRM-locked lending libraries of e-books (the ecosystem that the OP article is about).

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#33

Post by ryandrake »

ses1984 wrote: post #28
snapplebobapple wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually an argument for less regulation. Its the regulation causing the market failure. Cut copyright to a less stupid number like what it was originally 14 years. Make maintaining a copyright for those years contingent on having X % of sales available for free in libraries. We are asking the fundamentally wrong question with copyright, we should not be maximizing monopoly for copyright owners, we should be mini…

>Cut copyright to a less stupid number like what it was originally 14 years. Make maintaining a copyright for those years contingent on having X % of sales available for free in libraries I’m nitpicking but this isn’t less regulation, it’s different regulation. Some would even say it’s more. You’re reducing a number but adding complexity with the percent sales requirement.

Plus, if you got rid of or reduced copyright, publishers would just find other ways to engage in cartel-like behavior and continue to screw everyone.

I can’t think of any case where regulation/government was reduced and companies responded with something less profitable for the company.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#34

Post by aleph_minus_one »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #23
llm_trw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Free market hardly work there. You literally have a government granted monopoly on producing books. How can you even bring in the free market into this?

I mean, the free market is working pretty well. http://libgen.rs/ The government-granted monopoly, not so much.

> I mean, the free market is working pretty well.

> http://libgen.rs/

Exactly. What a lot of economists tend to "forget" is that markets also include black/illegal markets and markets that are hardly controllable by the government.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#35

Post by ghaff »

magnetowasright wrote: post #31
perihelions wrote: post #17

[flagged]

> I think it's fine if libraries die out. Honey, a new copypasta just dropped! This made me laugh almost as much as the first time I read the navy seal 'nothing personnel, kid' copypasta. Amazing. I genuinely cannot tell if this is sincere or satire (a hallmark of satire!). It's peak HN. I don't know what's funnier, this being sincere or it being a well crafted satire of the utterly insane beliefs of the deeply out-o…

My guess is it's real. But you're right that it's peak-HN that one can't be sure it's not satire (or trolling).

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#36

Post by 747-8F »

This isn't different from the media industry's overall evolution.

Publishers aren't different from Audio media. Authors have mkt reach through digital channels, unlike constraints of bookshelf logistics.

Why aren't they directly publishing their material? Margins are higher, without publisher fees.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#37

Post by perihelions »

ghaff wrote: post #35
magnetowasright wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's fine if libraries die out. Honey, a new copypasta just dropped! This made me laugh almost as much as the first time I read the navy seal 'nothing personnel, kid' copypasta. Amazing. I genuinely cannot tell if this is sincere or satire (a hallmark of satire!). It's peak HN. I don't know what's funnier, this being sincere or it being a well crafted satire of the utterly insane beliefs of the deeply out-o…

My guess is it's real. But you're right that it's peak-HN that one can't be sure it's not satire (or trolling).

I'm absolutely sincere and I'll reply to any well-intentioned questions.

I don't think I'm out of touch. I think this is the future of society and technology—meaning for the future for absolutely everyone, not just a few tech elites. It's jarring to me to see that flavor of accusation, when pirate libraries are freely available to billions of people who don't even have theoretical access to the stuff you people are talking about.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#38

Post by ghaff »

ses1984 wrote: post #28
snapplebobapple wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually an argument for less regulation. Its the regulation causing the market failure. Cut copyright to a less stupid number like what it was originally 14 years. Make maintaining a copyright for those years contingent on having X % of sales available for free in libraries. We are asking the fundamentally wrong question with copyright, we should not be maximizing monopoly for copyright owners, we should be mini…

>Cut copyright to a less stupid number like what it was originally 14 years. Make maintaining a copyright for those years contingent on having X % of sales available for free in libraries I’m nitpicking but this isn’t less regulation, it’s different regulation. Some would even say it’s more. You’re reducing a number but adding complexity with the percent sales requirement.

And if we're talking textbooks, I'm not sure what cutting copyright to 14 years actually accomplishes. I'm also not sure how you dole out X% of sales to libraries that might be interested. Especially given libraries are often ill-defined.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#39

Post by aleph_minus_one »

derbOac wrote: post #6

I get so frustrated by these games. Publishers should lose copyright to every work they do not offer in perpetuity with every purchase in every format, and there should be no postsale restrictions on any item beyond what is implied by copyright.

> Publishers should lose copyright to every work they do not offer in perpetuity with every purchase in every format

If such a law comes, the publisher will set the price to, say, 1 billion USD.

Re: Libraries struggle to afford e-books, seek new laws in fight with publishers

#40

Post by Retric »

ryandrake wrote: post #33
ses1984 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cut copyright to a less stupid number like what it was originally 14 years. Make maintaining a copyright for those years contingent on having X % of sales available for free in libraries I’m nitpicking but this isn’t less regulation, it’s different regulation. Some would even say it’s more. You’re reducing a number but adding complexity with the percent sales requirement.

Plus, if you got rid of or reduced copyright, publishers would just find other ways to engage in cartel-like behavior and continue to screw everyone. I can’t think of any case where regulation/government was reduced and companies responded with something less profitable for the company.

Airlines are often brought up as becoming cheaper with less regulations.

While it was mostly manufacturers building more efficient aircraft, people are generally willing to trade leg room for a cheaper fair. That’s exactly the kind of thing regulators and the free market may come to a different compromise. Worse, but cheaper is often quite appealing.

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