Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right • Hacker News Board

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#571

Post by mindentropy » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:24 AM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #509

cyberpunk wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, what are you doing for 10 hours a day in there? Can you comfortable code all day in that? If you don't mind my asking, is it purely novelty or is it genuinely better than coding on a 5k monitor?

For me it is not a novelty, it has completely stuck. Yes, on comfort for 10 hours. I have even worked 12 hours, then watched a long 3D movie (Blade Runner 2049, Dune I, etc.) without hesitation. I cannot imagine going back to only physical screens. I have a 98" monitor with two 55" monitors in portrait angled towards me on either side (heights all match), all wall mounted. Truly wonderful! But this has replaced that…

>I have a 98" monitor with two 55" monitors in portrait angled towards me on either side (heights all match), all wall mounted.

What are these 98" monitors? Is this a TV or some kind of signage display? That truly is a huge setup.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#572

Post by MBCook » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:29 AM UTC

Ologn wrote: post #365

saurik wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you own prior VR headsets? If so, what is different about this one? I also have been telling people that VR is magical and that while both current hardware and the current software has issues it will get better and that this stuff is going to have a big impact on humanity... only, I've been telling people this for just shy of a decade now ;P. I don't see the Apple Vision Pro as either the product that made any of…

I agree. It's obvious this technology has a big future, the question is, outside of the current $3500+ niche marker, when? The Oculus Rift was created in 2011, id Software was demoing it at E3 2012, and in 2016 consumer versions of HTC Vive and Oculus Rift launched, as did Microsoft HoloLens and Google Daydream. As it improves, I don't question that it has a future, and some people like it so much they're working on…

Lots of companies had made “smart phones“ before the iPhone came along. The iPhone is what blew the market open.

Other companies had MP3 players for a few years first. The iPod exploded.

You listed some good examples yourself. Windows 3 was nice but it was 95 that really made it big. The Internet existed but it was Netscape that made it takeoff, followed by AOL.

There’s always an invisible threshold. You can make something in a category but until it passes that threshold it doesn’t really change the world. It could be price, speed, ease of use, some new piece of technology, or a combination of all those factors.

Existing VR headsets obviously sell well enough that an industry exists, but it’s nowhere near ubiquitous. It hasn’t hit that threshold (assuming it exists for VR). Apple clearly has set their own bar, much higher than others, hoping that they’ve hit that magical point or at least gotten close enough to it. Today that cost a lot of money like the original Mac.

Going from the quest one to the two to the three has increased sales but I’m not sure it’s done anything to really approach that magic inflection point. Who knows how long it would have taken to get there. Maybe the quest four or five would, maybe the eight. We still don’t know where that line is.

But Apple is really pushing and that makes it interesting to watch if nothing else.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#573

Post by jaxn » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:30 AM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #509

cyberpunk wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, what are you doing for 10 hours a day in there? Can you comfortable code all day in that? If you don't mind my asking, is it purely novelty or is it genuinely better than coding on a 5k monitor?

For me it is not a novelty, it has completely stuck. Yes, on comfort for 10 hours. I have even worked 12 hours, then watched a long 3D movie (Blade Runner 2049, Dune I, etc.) without hesitation. I cannot imagine going back to only physical screens. I have a 98" monitor with two 55" monitors in portrait angled towards me on either side (heights all match), all wall mounted. Truly wonderful! But this has replaced that…

Thank you and damn you. I’m sold.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#574

Post by jimbokun » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:32 AM UTC

fouronnes3 wrote: post #67

noneeeed wrote: post #30

I think the description of the VisionPro as a dev kit is spot on. It's also a beta product in many way. Apple know full well that this is not a mass market product, they have made no attempt to make it even remotely affordable to most people. But they also know that every aspect of the hardware will improve over the next decade, and as it does they will have ironed out many of the problems with how we use AR/VR and w…

Hopefully you're right, but the cynic in me thinks we've been saying the same thing about every VR headset that has come out in the last ten years.

I haven’t heard anyone say they were going to work exclusively on their Occulus Rift,

Having even a few people saying they are already doing that on the Vision Pro seems significant.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#575

Post by dangus » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:38 AM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #481

Coming from a senior Oculus lead, the most interesting thing about this write up for me, is what it lacks: it says almost nothing about the software stack / operating system. Still 100% talking about hardware at the bottom and end user applications at the other end. But there is no discussion of the platform which to me is actually the highest value proposition Apple is bringing here. In short: Apple has made a fully…

I think you might be giving Apple too much credit for strapping the iPad OS on your face.

Granted, an iPad is better than an app launcher, but so far I don’t think the software is really “killer” in any specific way.

Most of the in depth reviews I’ve seen mostly praise the screen resolution and the movie experience.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#576

Post by dang » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:39 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #2

The author is former head of Oculus at Meta, Hugo Barra The full title, which of course wouldn't fit: Vision Pro is an over-engineered “devkit” // Hardware bleeds genius & audacity but software story is disheartening // What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right // Why Meta could finally have its Android moment I think my edit is the best summary.

Yes you did a great job with that, which probably helped it get attention, too—a good thing, since it's an interesting article. Thanks!

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#577

Post by jimbokun » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:40 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #121

joenot443 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a lot of tablets before the iPad but it wasn’t until the iPad that tablets really took off as a serious market segment. Ditto with AirPods and Bluetooth earbuds. In the past, once Apple started pouring R&D money into a specific product type, the entire industry around it tends to advance very quickly. I’m optimistic about the Vision Pro, and I actually think the n+2 Meta release will be much better off for…

My question is why does it seem like only Apple can do this, over and over? Why are they the only ones who seem to be able to knock a product category out of the park and legitimize it? Is it just the vast amount of money? Are they the only ones who can create products? Is everyone else that bad? Competitors work for ages and ages fighting each other, refining v1, v2, v2.1, v2.2, v2.25, and then suddenly Apple comes…

Before Steve Jobs returned to Apple, the entire industry had decided separate software and hardware companies were the superior business model. With Intel processors, Microsoft software, and a huge number of PC compatible manufacturers.

Jobs doubled down on the combination of hardware and software designed and implemented under one roof. That bet paid off past anyone’s expectations.

So Apple now is far ahead of everyone else, when it comes to creating products deeply integrating hardware and software and design.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#578

Post by jimbokun » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:44 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #354

fouc wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, "stymied by commercial concerns" is a great way to put it. I get the feeling that many companies/managers don't have enough courage to make a different set of tradeoffs.

A lot of the replies are pretty vague, like they’re just “good at product” or they just “understand this or that” as if it’s some kind of mysticism. But why, and how? What is the formula? I think this reply chain starts to get at why. I’m imagining a typical business school 2-axis chart where one axis is “willingness to take and commit to risks vs unwillingness/noncommittal” and the other axis is “acts independently…

Apple has in house expertise for everything from designing their own processors, writing their own OS and applications, world class designers, manufacturing at scale, and sourcing parts and negotiating favorable pricing.

No other company has all these competencies at the same level.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#579

Post by wraptile » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:48 AM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #448

whimsicalism wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 if the iPad were less locked down it would already be cannibalizing laptop sales more significantly.

And that's why Apple doesn't do it. They want you to buy both a MacBook and an iPad.

For each family memeber too! There's something incredibly sinister about how Apple operates that people just accept. All those dark patterns and control is just so icky I don't understand how anyone aware of this can submit to this. Just from sheer self-respect.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#580

Post by jimbokun » Sat, Mar 16, 2024, 3:48 AM UTC

skydhash wrote: post #381

ryandrake wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the replies are pretty vague, like they’re just “good at product” or they just “understand this or that” as if it’s some kind of mysticism. But why, and how? What is the formula? I think this reply chain starts to get at why. I’m imagining a typical business school 2-axis chart where one axis is “willingness to take and commit to risks vs unwillingness/noncommittal” and the other axis is “acts independently…

As someone who is deep inside the Apple ecosystem after making enough to afford the devices, it’s because they make it pleasant to use. Before my first MBP, I had a Dell Inspiron which has good specs, but it was heavy, the plastic was flimsy and the screen was not good. The trackpad was abysimal. In my last work position, I got a Dell XPS and it was the same, so in the span of 8 years, nothing changes to show that th…

My personal machine is an M1 Air, and have to use PCs for work. The time it takes the PCs to wake from sleep until I can do actual work is a constant annoyance. The MacBook Air wakes just as quickly as an iPhone.

It’s details like that, which set Apple apart.