Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#21

Post by InclinedPlane » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:00 PM UTC

SuperChihuahua wrote: post #10

donzimmer wrote: post #6

This brings up an interesting point. Are there jobs where a degree from a "top-tier university" is more highly-valued? Being an entrepreneur--even a successful one!--doesn't necessarily require a college degree. But are there jobs (perhaps this one?) where college classes are useful enough to warrant this bullet point in the job description? I'm not sure--I wasn't a stats/math major. But I'd be interested in hearing…

Ive studied a lot of math in school (including financial mathematics) and I think its hard to learn that type of stuff on your own. Its easier to learn how to code on your own since there are plenty of resources on the subject - but its harder to learn math. Maybe we have a business opportunity here? One should also remember the Hedge Fund Long Term Capital Management who hired 2 managers who had won the Nobel prize…

I'm not sure that it's harder. A good textbook or two combined with diligently reading, rereading and doing the problem sets is probably about as successful as class attendance in the average case, I would say. I think the problem is finding a good textbook and forcing yourself to do the work.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#22

Post by InclinedPlane » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:02 PM UTC

munin wrote: post #20

GuiA wrote: post #9

Using GPAs is so silly, as scales vary widely between universities, and even countries. In French universities, you get marks between 0 and 20 (you need 10 to pass a class, and in some cases you can pass a class with 8 if it averages out with certain other classes). In some universities (classes préparatoires), marks superior to 10 are extremely rare, with a class average at ~6-7 being common, as professors want to p…

> (I'm not too familiar with undergraduate studies in the US, but it seems that as long as you show up and do the homework, you pretty much get an A in the class) that is emphatically untrue (either that, or myself and all of my classmates are a lot dumber than we think we are)

Maybe at some colleges and in some courses. I went to a state college and studied math and science and that was definitely not true.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#23

Post by glesica » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:04 PM UTC

donzimmer wrote: post #6

This brings up an interesting point. Are there jobs where a degree from a "top-tier university" is more highly-valued? Being an entrepreneur--even a successful one!--doesn't necessarily require a college degree. But are there jobs (perhaps this one?) where college classes are useful enough to warrant this bullet point in the job description? I'm not sure--I wasn't a stats/math major. But I'd be interested in hearing…

I think you're looking at it backward in some sense. A "top-tier" university doesn't teach any skills that couldn't be learned at most other universities (especially at the undergraduate level). However, the characteristics of an average student can be vastly different between a top-tier university and those lower in the rankings.

These sorts of requirements aren't put in place because there are particular skills necessary to do the job. They are in place to cut down the applicant pool to a reasonable size while raising the average quality (or at least not lowering it). It's classic signaling.

They let the university do most of the screening for them, weeding out the people who aren't smart, driven and dedicated enough to get into and graduate from a top-tier school.

Some extremely prestigious consulting firms won't look at a resume that isn't from one of a handful of schools. They fully realize that this policy results in them outright rejecting hundreds of excellent applicants. But they still end up with top-tier people, and they don't have to wade through tens of thousands of resumes to do it.

Highly sought-after employers can do this. But it doesn't work as well the further down the corporate "food chain" you go. This works especially well in industries like finance where ambition and a drive to perform while working within a fairly narrow set of parameters is paramount.

Peter Thiel is a big name, his companies are big names. Therefore they can use this strategy to their advantage, even if they don't particularly care about any specific set of skills.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#24

Post by defilade » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:17 PM UTC

donzimmer wrote: post #6

This brings up an interesting point. Are there jobs where a degree from a "top-tier university" is more highly-valued? Being an entrepreneur--even a successful one!--doesn't necessarily require a college degree. But are there jobs (perhaps this one?) where college classes are useful enough to warrant this bullet point in the job description? I'm not sure--I wasn't a stats/math major. But I'd be interested in hearing…

Yes and a lot of finance jobs fall into this category including investment banking, hedge funds and VC firms. The more selective ones will typically only consider people from a few schools. It's just a way filter.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#25

Post by pbreit » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

jbellis wrote: post #3

This is stupid. Do people really think Thiel is personally managing every job opening at every company he's associated with? Non-sequitur "gotcha" reporting at its worst. I expected better from Yglesias.

As if we should call out the "CABLE" News Network for having a web site. So silly.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#26

Post by adamtmca » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

Thiel has argued that there is a "bubble" in higher education -- that is, on average, American's over value it. Not that higher education is meaningless or that going to a top school and getting good grades doesn't signal that you are: smart, ambitious, hard working and would fit in with the academic culture at a hedge fund.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#27

Post by defilade » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:20 PM UTC

lrm242 wrote: post #16

jbellis wrote: post #3

This is stupid. Do people really think Thiel is personally managing every job opening at every company he's associated with? Non-sequitur "gotcha" reporting at its worst. I expected better from Yglesias.

Of course the flip side is Thiel has been so amazingly vocal about his views on higher education you'd think he would have made a his staff aware that this requirement wasn't aligned with his views. In the end it is mostly a depiction of how having a degree is a door opener because it is a default filter for almost all hiring managers. Even hiring managers employed by a vocal advocate of skipping college.

The job requirements and qualifications for an entrepreneur and a hedge fund analyst are so different that it's not necessarily inconsistent

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#28

Post by ojbyrne » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:28 PM UTC

munin wrote: post #20

GuiA wrote: post #9

Using GPAs is so silly, as scales vary widely between universities, and even countries. In French universities, you get marks between 0 and 20 (you need 10 to pass a class, and in some cases you can pass a class with 8 if it averages out with certain other classes). In some universities (classes préparatoires), marks superior to 10 are extremely rare, with a class average at ~6-7 being common, as professors want to p…

> (I'm not too familiar with undergraduate studies in the US, but it seems that as long as you show up and do the homework, you pretty much get an A in the class) that is emphatically untrue (either that, or myself and all of my classmates are a lot dumber than we think we are)

In my experience, it's not true of undergrad studies. It is however (again from my experience) very true at the graduate level. Typically because of the grade compression at grad school - in most cases a C+ is a failing grade, thus the range of acceptable grades is compressed (undergrad A-F, grad A-C+). So a grad B+ takes on the characteristics of a undergrad C+ - essentially a signal that you need to shape up.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#29

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:36 PM UTC

strlen wrote: post #11

jbellis wrote: post #3

This is stupid. Do people really think Thiel is personally managing every job opening at every company he's associated with? Non-sequitur "gotcha" reporting at its worst. I expected better from Yglesias.

Not to mention this is standard boilerplate: it's not even listed as a hard requirement (should have, not must have). If someone is deterred from as much as submitting a resume because they don't have one of the "Desired Skills", odds are they shouldn't be anywhere near a startup hedge-fund or any other kind of enterprise that requires taking initiative.

Heck if I wanted to work there I would apply even though it said 'must have' and I didn't.

Job ads requirements are basically a way to scare away those who are limited by artificial restrictions.

Re: Peter Thiel's unexpected job requirement

#30

Post by tomjen3 » Mon, May 14, 2012, 6:39 PM UTC

bishnu wrote: post #5

mitchelldm7 wrote: post #2

Ridiculous. To say that a top-tier university produces a better employee, or business leader, is to say that a person's individual personality, upbringing or work ethic plays no part. A high GPA - that's an understandable requirement - but to base it arbitrarily on a 'top-tier' university is depriving qualified, talented employees from consideration.

Turning away a qualified candidate isn't the bad outcome for a hiring process - hiring an unqualified worker is. So if the trade off for avoiding the latter is some of the former, it is arguably worth it (and Thiel is likely in a good position to know what the appropriate ratios are)

I am so tired of hearing that argument. There is not a line of super qualified people banging on your door to get a chance to interview at your company.

Unless your are google or facebook, you are not going to be able to just turn away qualified people. It makes it too easy for your competition.