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Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

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Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#271
post #214
post #203

The author of this article and quite a few people in this HN thread all seem to be mainly looking at Vision Pro through the lens of VR gaming. Why else would the author return his Vision Pro? What makes Vision Pro truly interesting to me is that we can replace our laptop screen with a view containing a larger display and multiple ancillary displays.

Except most reviews find the fov and resolution inadequate for desktop work, and eschewing gamers cuts out the majority of existing VR enthusiasts.

> Except most reviews find the fov and resolution inadequate for desktop work

I have not heard any such complaints.

Sure, I heard some complaining that the FOV should be wider, but not being able to work because of it? Not a peep.

The resolution is incredible, you can't see any pixels at all. There's zero screen door effect.

If the concern is with the Mac Virtual Display, then it's understandable. There seems to be some compression going on and it doesn't look as crisp.

Native apps though? They are perfect

> eschewing gamers

They are not doing that. It's the companies not porting games over (the ones that don't have issues with the lack of controllers). It may be simply a matter of time, as just porting games and keeping existing assets will make them look terrible with the higher resolution of the Vision Pro.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#272

My two cents (as an owner of a Vision Pro): 1) This is a beta product and I wouldnt recommend it to anyone that is not a developer or in a position to create apps for it, 2) this is going to have as big of an impact on humanity as the computer or the internet did and every engineer or aspiring entrepreneur should pay it attention. This device is magical. Yes it's too heavy, yes there are not enough apps, yes sharing…

> this is going to have as big of an impact on humanity as the computer or the internet

I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. VR/AR just isn't there and won't be there for a lot longer than people think. Everyone always acts like we're -so close- but then we just aren't. Hololens and Oculus are over a decade old, and honestly when I first demo'd both ages ago, they were incredible (especially Hololens.) If I put on a headset now, sure it's better but it's still stuck on that same idea and seems to fundamentally misunderstand how humans interact. Apple's newest product is no different. I think the future of wearable devices looks a lot more like the Meta Ray-bans with some sort of small HUD than a full computer strapped to your face that you can't wear anywhere (without being socially ostracized or robbed).

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#273
I'm going to go against the grain a bit here and say that in my experience, the description of the Vision Pro as a dev kit feels pretty reductive.

I was a day 1 purchaser who bought it fully expecting the device to just be an early access "dev kit" and have been shocked at how well it's fit into my day-to-day uses for a huge variety of things.

Some of the things I like to do with it:

1. Gaming with friends: I play Baldur's Gate 3 with a group of 4 every week and can very comfortably relax on my recliner while running a discord window and stream BG3 from Geforce Now with an app called Nexus+ just using a ps5 controller. It's a very seamless experience and one of the highlights of my week.

2. Reading comic books: I thing this is one of the most underrated things to do with the Vision Pro. Being able to adjust the size of comic panels to an enormous size helps me appreciate the linework and detail put into every page.

3. Software development/photo + video editing: I use my MacBook Pro + screen mirroring to get a larger screen in an immersive environment that I personally find less distracting to get into a focused state of mind for writing code or creative endeavors like photo + video editing.

4. Entertainment: Watching movies, tv shows, and 180 SBS videos like SliceofLifeVR's content has been awesome and incredibly immersive. I much prefer the Vision Pro to my TV for solo viewing. Obviously, this falls short when looking to share the experience with others, but a lot of my viewing is alone, so it's fine for me.

Things that haven't really worked very well that I wanted to like:

1. Reading books + taking notes: I read a lot for book clubs I host and envisioned this being a great way to have a lot of available space to spread out notes and things during book clubs on discord and just find it to not be particularly enjoyable compared to reading a physical book or kindle.

2. VisionOS Native productivity: I've spent a decent amount of time editing spreadsheets and writing documentation with the VisionOS Native Microsoft Office Suite + PDF readers but find that there's a lot of minor things that add up to make it a less usable product for productivity outside of the context of screen mirroring. I'm going to keep trying to figure out a workflow that works better for me, but just haven't yet.

For context, I'm in my late 20's and live alone currently, so there are a lot of people for whom this device doesn't make as much sense for—I'm solely describing my personal uses for it as a member of the likely target audience.

Overall, I'm extremely pleased that it can do a lot of things that I find fulfilling and entertaining with little to no resistance. I can confidently say that for the tasks I listed above, it's my favorite way of doing them by a pretty large margin.

Additionally, I use the Solo Knit Band (M) for all of my usage with no modifications and find it comfortable for around 5-6 hours with no breaks in wearing it. I fully recognize that this isn't the normal experience for many consumers, and I likely will upgrade to some type of Halo band when a company like BoboVR release an AVP product line, but out of the box, the comfort is more than enough for me to use for extended periods of time with no mods.

Since buying it on release day, I've used it probably 2-4 hours most days with some days of 10-12 hours and some days of no usage and it's become an integrated part of my lifestyle. If anyone has any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer about my experience with it.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#274
post #136

IMHO Meta's #1 mistake with VR thus far has been presentation. No good press has ever come with screenshots of silly cartoon avatars (with or without legs). The focus on games highlighted its lack of utility. AVP only highlighted utility, which draws instant connection to our daily lives.

Just speaking for myself here, but owning a Quest I don't entirely agree. The utility of it is kinda crazy - I can browse the web and OpenXR apps from my browser, or tether myself to my PC with the push of a button. Wanna sideload streaming apps and watch movies over SFTP from your homeserver? There are no guardrails in place to stop you. If I try to imagine myself living the same workflow on Apple Vision Pro, I get…

Meta severely underplays those capabilities. I've always known they're "there", but it's not their preferred presentation of the device. It also takes a bit of "power user" to be comfortable doing much of what you're describing.

I'm not even sure if AVP can side load apps or watch movies over SFTP, but I don't think it matters at this point: the global mindshare is sold on Apple being the leader now, and personally I don't think it's the hardware driving the difference. Strangely, I think it came down to "look n feel" for a lot of it.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#275

If people wanted to wear a phone screen taped over their eyes out in public, the technical limitations wouldn't barely make a dent in that desire. But the vast majority of people want to have real in-person human interactions when they're out in the world. That's what the makers of these devices fail to see. But they can't see that because they're self-described VR enthusiasts. If they talk to non VR enthusiasts (whi…

What we consider acceptable changes all the time. A lot of people have conversations with earbuds in. And in the 90s it would have been inconceivable to go out for dinner and have half of the people hacking away on their phones.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#276
I got mine on day 1 (February 2) and have spent many hours using it and experimenting, trying to make the device as unobtrusive as possible so I can use it for hours watching movies/surfing the web/etc., activities which become enjoyable if you're not constantly adjusting your position/VP's position on your head and face.

Here are my takeaways FWIW:

1. The only body position I find comfortable and compatible with prolonged use is laying down on a couch with my head elevated on the arm. This automatically relieves all pressure on the top and back of my head from the device, and transfers it to my face.

By finding just the right head position/angle, looking up and away, I can create a balance of downward forces distributed across my forehead/nose/cheekbones. If done just right, that 600 grams (1.3 lbs.) of VP hardware then has an effective surface area of about 8 square inches of skin interface with the foam of the light shield cushion.

Note: the VP with knitted strap weighs 600 grams; without the strap it weighs 550 grams (1.2 lbs.)

Lying down while using VP, strap weight is irrelevant since it does not exert force on your head.

Do this experiment: get bags of coffee beans/nuts/raisins/frozen peas/corn, or a steak or bacon or ground beef, whatever weighs a total of around 1.2 pounds, then lie down and put it over your upper face.

Close your eyes and think about how it feels. Remember the VP interface with your skin will be soft foam — NOT product packaging.

Consider that when using VP, your attention will NOT be on how it feels but rather on whatever it is you're doing/watching.

2. For use in the supine position as detailed above, the knitted strap is far more comfortable and easy to use compared to the two-strap alternative that comes with VP.

You don't even have to tighten the strap when you're lying down, since the seal against your face is provided courtesy of gravity.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#277
post #96

I recently saw Dune 2 on IMAX. If the Vision Pro can soon replicate that experience they will print (even more) money and could lock the big film studios down forever pretty much. That is the killer use case. Everything else seems like fluff.

> If the Vision Pro can soon replicate that experience they will print (even more) money and could lock the big film studios down forever pretty much.

Visually? It looks far better than an IMAX screen. It's an order of magnitude better compared to watching 3D movies in a movie theater with '3d glasses'.

All it is missing is sound. It's no slouch, but you don't have a subwoofer :)

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#278

> Vision Pro is a meticulously over-engineered “devkit” that is far too heavy to have product-market fit but good enough to seed curiosity into the world That's exactly what I think. And that's exactly why I bought it. I have: * Oculus Rift 1 * HTC Vive * Quest 2 None of those made me want to write apps for them. They have nice games and I spent quality time with them, but just playing. I tried watching videos and it…

> If you can work from an iPad

Sorry I can't and why the heck should I. I can get vastly superior work computer for 10% of the price (of goggles) that has none of the apple nor general tablet hard and massive limits. Huge constant time saving on work effectivity.

I could do some work with samsung ultra series (mouse, keyboard and massive screen cinnectivity via single usbc out if box), but even that is massively subpar.

Maybe we just do vastly different things, but all folks I know fall into my category, IT or not.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#279
post #136

IMHO Meta's #1 mistake with VR thus far has been presentation. No good press has ever come with screenshots of silly cartoon avatars (with or without legs). The focus on games highlighted its lack of utility. AVP only highlighted utility, which draws instant connection to our daily lives.

The killer for me was requiring a FB/Meta login...

No way I'm going to buy a piece of equipment Zuck can brick at any minute...

Apple seems to have a bit better reputation in this regard, but I'm still not sure I'd risk getting a device...

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#280
post #178

I'm going to die on the hill that gaze sucks. I really hate focus follows gaze and not having a workable keyboard or buttons makes it hard to actually use this for productivity. It's fine for an alt mode type thing but as the main form of input I kind of hate it. That said, forcing your hands to be full of controllers also sucks but at least you can play a game. I don't have a solution but it needs to get solved for…

Have you tried the Vision Pro? Not doubting your take here, just curious if it's informed by the actual implementation.
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