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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

theguardian.com

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Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#151

Post by bnralt »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #143
bnralt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

Pretty much everyone is a fan of music in general or some kind of music in particular. But I would counter that being able to name and differentiate a genre is a valid minimum standard to be a "real" fan of that genre . I also reckon that being a fan connotes something different from merely enjoying the sound when you happen to come across it. But I guess there's room for disagreement there.

I highly disagree. I'm not going to say someone isn't a a true fan of Bach and Vivaldi because they refer to the music as "Classical" instead of "Baroque." Saying they "merely enjoying the sound when [they] happen to come across it" because they aren't interested in how other people have decided to name these things seems incredibly dismissive. Enjoying music is entirely unrelated to being interested in where other people have decided to artificially create divisions and the names they give to those divisions.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#152

Post by iamacyborg »

bnralt wrote: post #138
input_sh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Some…

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

> Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without getting caught up in nomenclature. The idea that those people aren't real fans always feels very snobbish.

If you can't differentiate between neurofunk and liquid, you're probably not a big dnb fan.

That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, but enjoying something and being a fan of something can be quite distinct things.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#153

Post by brcmthrowaway »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

Berlin is over, just like Burning Man is over

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#154

Post by iamacyborg »

HKH2 wrote: post #98
ricksunny wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you distinguish these two? In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space.

One clear difference is that EDM tends to have a lot of lyrics, whereas Techno tends not to.

Depends on the subgenre of Techno. A lot of hardcore and Tekno features a lot of movie samples.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#155

Post by _kb »

ehnto wrote: post #68
omnimus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing even compares to Berlin. Prague has basically 2 clubs and they are working partly because it's cheap and only 4hour train from Berlin so it's fun destination for both Berliners and Berlin DJS. Athens is where lots of the techno scene (djs, producers) has been moving to but that's because property is cheap so they can run away from Berlin winter. It also has like 2 clubs. In Berlin there are so many venues it'…

Is this specifically techno/underground clubs you mean? My pokey city in Aus has like a dozen "EDM" clubs that spin a decent breadth of techno to house to dnb etc. Perhaps I should count myself lucky?

I'm unsure which "pokey city in Aus" you're referring to as that arguably covers all of our capitals. You really can't compare any Australian club to Berlin's institutions, and that a good thing!

Music, events, and culture in general should be diverse. It would be a fucking bleak future if the world converges on the single right way to party, detach, relax, or feel.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#156

Post by _kb »

earthnail wrote: post #73
ehnto wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this specifically techno/underground clubs you mean? My pokey city in Aus has like a dozen "EDM" clubs that spin a decent breadth of techno to house to dnb etc. Perhaps I should count myself lucky?

EDM isn't Techno. It's a bit like saying that hard rock is like metal (somewhat bad analogy, but I hope you get the point). I know you listed a range of genres but it's important to note that the Berlin techno scene would never consider itself part of EDM. In Europe, most EDM is happening in Amsterdam.

Or perhaps more appropriately for this context: "hey, you work with computers. Can you fix my printer?"

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#157

Post by iamacyborg »

sseagull wrote: post #145
bnralt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

I find the nomenclature discussion very interesting. I wonder why "modern" music has so many genres? I listen to a lot of "classical". People will generally dump centuries of music into that label, or into the slightly better "baroque/classical/romantic/etc" bins. But composers often have phases where their music can change considerably. Even with in a work (say, Dvorak's 9th symphony) individual movements can be ver…

I actually find that aspect of classical music really frustrating, subgenres are really useful to identify the particular elements of music that you enjoy.

I've come across plenty of classical music that I enjoy but I don't know where to begin to find more of it.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#158

Post by giraffe_lady »

bnralt wrote: post #151
giraffe_lady wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everyone is a fan of music in general or some kind of music in particular. But I would counter that being able to name and differentiate a genre is a valid minimum standard to be a "real" fan of that genre . I also reckon that being a fan connotes something different from merely enjoying the sound when you happen to come across it. But I guess there's room for disagreement there.

I highly disagree. I'm not going to say someone isn't a a true fan of Bach and Vivaldi because they refer to the music as "Classical" instead of "Baroque." Saying they "merely enjoying the sound when [they] happen to come across it" because they aren't interested in how other people have decided to name these things seems incredibly dismissive. Enjoying music is entirely unrelated to being interested in where other p…

ok.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#159

Post by AlgoRitmo »

junon wrote: post #51
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

I live in Berlin. This isn't true at all. Berlin's underground scene is still quite strong, perhaps just not as strong as it used to be. There's more "in the open" stuff due to the popularity, yes, but there's still plenty of (sometimes literal) underground raves happening. I'd also argue that the most recent accelerator for the shift in culture in Berlin isn't so much the tourism, but the pandemic. People haven't re…

Yes - I absolutely agree, any DJ who is familiar with the scene knows that is the #1 place on the planet as far as talent goes…there are residents at CDV who fly to Chile and Berlin a few times a week

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#160

Post by Towaway69 »

treprinum wrote: post #120
pantalaimon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don’t queue an hour at Mustafa's - it’s good Kebap, but it’s not that extraordinary. Rüya(m), Superhahn or Servet's make the same style of Gemüsekebap and are just as good.

Why go to Germany to get a Turkish meal? Any kebab in Istanbul is going to be better than whatever is available in Berlin. Better get some Schweinshaxe mit Sauerkraut...

IIRC Döner Kebab Was invented in Berlin...

> The modern sandwich variant of döner kebab originated and was popularized in 1970s West Berlin by Turkish immigrants.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doner_kebab

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