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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

theguardian.com

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Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#141

Post by hackandthink »

helloplanets wrote: post #133

"Der Klang der Familie: Berlin, Techno and the Fall of the Wall" [0] is a good book on the origins of the Berlin Techno scene. It's based on interviews and discussions by the people originally setting up the whole thing, making it a pretty breezy read that you don't necessarily have to go through chronologically. No city can really replicate the absurd situation Berlin was in after the second world war. The absolute…

Can't remember climbing a ladder down to get into Tresor.

The ladder was into the cellar of the Fischbüro location somewhere in Kreuzberg 36. (these guys started Tresor later)

(Eimer (Bucket) was a really bad location several years later, you wouldn't have been able to get out of the basement if ...)

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#142

Post by eythian »

randomopining wrote: post #137
input_sh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Some…

Netherlands is top in Europe overall. Most Berlin people are migrating to Amsterdam.

They must really love the music then, they sure as hell aren't moving for the better housing prices.

I'm not at all in the Amsterdam EDM or hardstyle scene (just not my music), but I had indirectly got the feeling that it was slowly declining (ADE excepted), I could be quite wrong though, maybe they're just all in NDSM or something.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#143

Post by giraffe_lady »

bnralt wrote: post #138
input_sh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Some…

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

Pretty much everyone is a fan of music in general or some kind of music in particular. But I would counter that being able to name and differentiate a genre is a valid minimum standard to be a "real" fan of that genre.

I also reckon that being a fan connotes something different from merely enjoying the sound when you happen to come across it. But I guess there's room for disagreement there.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#144

Post by snakeyjake »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

>Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration.

In my experience, people who like things because they are hidden and exclusive tend to be shitty, shallow, superficial people. Many, many, varied decades of life lived all over the world, and I've never witnessed a counterexample so I hesitate to make it an absolute.

Same goes for people who think they like things more than others because they liked them first.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#145

Post by sseagull »

bnralt wrote: post #138
input_sh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Some…

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

I find the nomenclature discussion very interesting. I wonder why "modern" music has so many genres?

I listen to a lot of "classical". People will generally dump centuries of music into that label, or into the slightly better "baroque/classical/romantic/etc" bins.

But composers often have phases where their music can change considerably. Even with in a work (say, Dvorak's 9th symphony) individual movements can be very different. Yet I don't see classical music enthusiasts trying to place every single work into tiny bins (or maybe they do?). They just enjoy them.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#146

Post by ferongr »

snakeyjake wrote: post #144
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

>Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. In my experience, people who like things because they are hidden and exclusive tend to be shitty, shallow, superficial people. Many, many, varied decades of life lived all over the world, and I've never witnessed a counterexample so I hesitate to make it an absolute. Same goes for people who think they like…

On the other hand, normies do ruin everything.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#147

Post by The_Colonel »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #115
The_Colonel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This insistence on these officialities is frustrating, because the city limits are pretty arbitrary and have no bearing on the discussion at hand. Did you know that London (City of London) has less than 10 000 inhabitants? Apart from being a legal and historical peculiarity, it's largely irrelevant in most discussions. For this discussion (cultural centers of Europe), Greater Paris, Greater London and Berlin (they ha…

City limits are important because each city in a metro area could have different zoning and noise ordinance laws. Or even just law enforcement that's more or less strict in one city than another. This can help to shape the culture in each city in a metropolitan area.

> City limits are important because each city in a metro area could have different zoning and noise ordinance laws.

You can have these differences within one city as well, on the district level or even individual streets.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#148

Post by throwaway11460 »

helboi4 wrote: post #62
throwaway11460 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a different branch of music that doesn't have much in common with Chicago style house/techno. It's similar so people lump it together, but it evolved separately from synthpop, eurodance and electronic music that Kraftwerk did in 70s. The modern commercial EDM/techno is pretty different from what you're going to hear at a Berlin/Prague underground techno club, and has almost nothing in common with freetekno as…

I beg to differ. Plenty of Berlin techno is a descendant of Detroit techno. The fact that you only mentioned Chicago already shows a lack of understanding. Kraftwerk and the others you mentioned influenced Detroit techno pioneers, Detroit techno pioneers influenced Berlin techno pioneers. It's a transatlantic sound.

I mentioned Chicago because the parent did.

But I agree that there's a lot of cross influence.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#149

Post by omnimus »

randomopining wrote: post #137
input_sh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my head EDM & techno occupy the same space. That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Some…

Netherlands is top in Europe overall. Most Berlin people are migrating to Amsterdam.

Hardly. Amsterdam is comparatively small city = much smaller audience. You can se the stability of the scene in how often clubs close down. Just recently De School closed (now it should be reopen again under different management/name). Some of the Berlin clubs have been open and solid for 20 years.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#150

Post by ciex »

piva00 wrote: post #25
input_sh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sisiphos (temporarily closed right now I believe, not sure if that'll be the case by May), Renate, Birgit, Ritter Butzke.

Those are not really underrated or underground these days though, they are some of the mainstays of clubs in Berlin. I don't think even Golden Gate nor ://about:blank would be considered truly "underground" anymore. As usual with the underground stuff you need to dig deeper to find them, as I don't live in Berlin I need to rely on my local friends to take me to these places as they are inserted within the underground…

Yes, please dont post about any unpromoted venues on hacker news!
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