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Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

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Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#21

Post by tombert »

KLejmooo wrote: post #11
pavlov wrote: post #4

Great article. It's so long, the four-part title is deserved and necessary to understand what's here. I found this part somewhat funny or perhaps disingenuous: > "I admit Vision Pro is the ultimate tech toy, but since I’m not an active developer I can’t justify the $4,049.78 price tag (512GB model + California sales tax) simply for keeping up with the VR market, so I returned my Vision Pro for a full refund inside th…

He wrote "can't justify". I need to call myself also 'rich' (because of values i hold but can't liquify and i earn enough that i could buy more expensive toys without thinking too much about it) but this doesn't mean my mindset changed. I have to remind myself that i can afford certain things or i'm wasting too much thought about prices of products. This probably shows a more realistic, less material and proper upbri…

I'm hardly "rich" but I do alright, but similarly there are plenty of toys that I certainly could "afford", but can't really justify.

For example, I would really like a real pinball machine, but a nice refurbished one or brand new one cost anywhere between $3,000 and $10,000. If I wanted, I could save up for a bit and buy one, but it's really hard for me to tell myself that $5,000 for a toy is "worth it", so I never have.

The most extravagant toy that I've purchased in the last few years with the MiSTer, and even that was a little hard to justify.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#22

Post by tempest_ »

protoman3000 wrote: post #17

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

Same.

The tech is interesting but I am still waiting for the software to show me something that doesn't feel like a gimmick.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#23

Post by grecy »

protoman3000 wrote: post #17

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

Absolutely, and it’s interesting to realize the same was true for the first couple of iPhone versions, iPads and Apple Watch.

As long as those apps come, it could be great

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#24

Post by KingOfCoders »

wolverine876 wrote: post #18
KingOfCoders wrote: post #9

I like my Oculus Rift. But the software is so bad. It is confusing, after a month not using it, I don't know where each setting is. Sometimes I misconfigure, and there is no easy way to reset it and move everything into view again. Hardware is fine for my needs (playing Alyx), but the software looks like somthing bought from seven sources and glued together.

Is there something inherently difficult or novel about VR operating software that would make it difficult to design or implement controls? I can understand tracking hands is difficult, but I mean the problems you have. It seems crazy that after investing so much in the 'hard part', the VR hardware and software itself, they'd drop the ball on what seems mundane - basic design of UI controls.

No I don't think so. They just miss the Apple attitude of UI.

It's like the Windows setting system. I'm using Win11/WSL, and while it works, the Windows settings are a mixture of Win95/Aero/3rd Party Plugins (Nvidia)/Win11 and some things that just look like Win3.1.

Googling to change DNS settings:

  Step 1: Open the Control Panel. ...
  Step 2: Open Network and Sharing Center. ...
  Step 3: Choose the connection. ...
  Step 4: Change adapter settings. ...
  Step 5: Choose Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4) ...
  Step 6: Click on Properties. ...
So I don't think it has anything to do with VR

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#25

Post by tombert »

noneeeed wrote: post #13
KLejmooo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wrote "can't justify". I need to call myself also 'rich' (because of values i hold but can't liquify and i earn enough that i could buy more expensive toys without thinking too much about it) but this doesn't mean my mindset changed. I have to remind myself that i can afford certain things or i'm wasting too much thought about prices of products. This probably shows a more realistic, less material and proper upbri…

Likewise. I could absolutely afford one, but I can't justify one. I'm the same with a smartwatch. I'd like one, but if I got one it would need to be cellular so I can leave my phone at home most of the time. But I just can't justify the cost for the utility I would get. In some way, this is probably one of the reasons I'm in the situation that I can buy these things, because of all the other things I have not bought…

Just an FYI in regards to a smart watch; if you're in the US, check your health insurance. Some of them have an offer of "if you go to the gym N times, you can have an Apple Watch for free or at a discount".

It sort of makes sense; the calorie counting feature on my Garmin has actually been really helpful in me losing weight, and I think the insurance companies feel like nearly anything to help people lose weight is probably going to save them money in the long run.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#26

Post by Almondsetat »

protoman3000 wrote: post #17

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

>disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings

which headsets are you referring to? surely not the ones in the article since they have very good passthrough

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#27

Post by ARandumGuy »

protoman3000 wrote: post #17

No matter how much I contemplate about it, there was still no “killer” app that affords me to buy a VR set. I’ve tried them, it’s nice. But it really has no place in my life. And how could this change? Even with better displays etc. the whole idea of disconnecting my main sense - the eyes - from my surroundings is so strange to me that it seems irreconcilable. Can anybody relate?

I own 2 VR headsets, primarily for gaming. I've had a lot of fun with stuff like Beat Saber or Superhot VR, and Half Life Alyx is an incredible experience that could only exit with VR.

Despite that, VR is pretty much just a cool toy. Yes there are cool and interesting experiences in VR, but there are also a lot of limitations, not all of which are technological. I think VR will stay around for a while, but I don't see it moving past the "cool toy" stage anytime soon.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#28

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

ramboldio wrote: post #12

> The Apple Vision Pro is the Northstar the VR industry needed, whether we admit it or not I think that sums it up pretty well. More companies should launch products like that!

It's not though. It has all the problems of previous VR headsets. Heavy, digs into your face, gets warm and sweaty, field of view is limited.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#29

Post by rswail »

There's no consideration of the other "killer app" for VR/AR, porn.

Porn is what got VHS to succeed over Beta. Porn is what got CC payments working online. Porn drives a lot of Twitch and other platforms.

Apple won't allow porn on its platform, but someone will.

Re: Vision Pro: What we got wrong at Oculus that Apple got right

#30

Post by noneeeed »

I think the description of the VisionPro as a dev kit is spot on. It's also a beta product in many way.

Apple know full well that this is not a mass market product, they have made no attempt to make it even remotely affordable to most people. But they also know that every aspect of the hardware will improve over the next decade, and as it does they will have ironed out many of the problems with how we use AR/VR and will be ready for it, based on the real life experiences of actual owners, rather than years of in-house testing.

The screen will get bigger (I hear FoV is pretty poor at the moment), the CPU/power/thermal performance will improve, battery density goes up, cameras and sensors get better and cheaper and many parts will get smaller/lighter. And in that time they will learn by doing, making it better/cheaper/lighter and working on the software and interaction model.

Hopefully at the same time it will really spur on the rest of the industry and we will see more competition and experimentation.

I can't see myself buying something like this for the next 10 years at least. But something like the VPro that is better, smaller and lighter and doesn't cost the earth could be quite tempting for late adopters like me.

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