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FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

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Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#151

I oppose this. 100mbps just isn't what most people need. To most readers, this probably sounds innocuous, but I have some involvement in my city's digital equity community, so I have some insight into what this translates to for local governments and community organizations. Now what will happen is someone at the county level in charge of digital infrastructure will look at at a map and say "oh no, 40% of our populat…

> I oppose this. 100mbps just isn't what most people need.

It's a quality of life improvement. :/

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#152

This is over regulation imo. If you support this then you can’t complain about there not being any low cost housing because it’s regulations akin to this that is increasing the costs. 25->100 is more of a luxury then a necessity

> 25->100 is more of a luxury then a necessity Not if you work remotely.

Agreed. I work from home, but my upload speed still kills me at time. It is not uncommon to need to share a 500M+ file with a colleague, and 30-60 minutes is just too slow. I still have to go into the office on some days when I know I'll be doing stuff like this.

Not to mentions that for my personal computers, I want offsite backups. I have to take a hard-drive and personal laptop to the office every few months to seed a full backup, since it is just too slow from home, other than the incremental backups.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#153
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing personally I want is the same upload speed as download. So I can connect to my home server and download/upload stuff from it.

How are we supposed to have middlemen SAAS services making you subscribe to basic things if you can just do it yourself?

It's not just upload speeds though, don't forget also needing a static IP address (or two...) and unblocked ports, and a decent router and other networking gear. And when residential Internet goes IPv6-only (...eventually) you'll likely still need dual-stack IPv4 to avoid problems with connections from IPv4-only endpoints.

Oh, and an SLA too...

UPnP was meant to help alleviate some of those requirements but I don't think there's been any progress on that front since the spec came out in 2001...

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3 9s is completely fine. Internet is not subject to the 911 uptime requirements. It's all going over the same wire. Why not put in the extra fraction of effort?

> It's all going over the same wire Yes and no. Even if it's going over the same wire, there are different data flows. Voice uses predictable amounts of bandwidth per phone number.

Minimum speed still requires almost all the equipment to be running.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#155

This is over regulation imo. If you support this then you can’t complain about there not being any low cost housing because it’s regulations akin to this that is increasing the costs. 25->100 is more of a luxury then a necessity

> 25->100 is more of a luxury then a necessity Not if you work remotely.

Not necessarily. If your work uses AWS and only needs the smaller instance sizes 25 mbps might be plenty. Those instances do not have very high network performance. I don't think I've ever managed to get above 20 mbps downloading from my employer's little AWS instances.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#156
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On coax/cable lines like Charter/Spectrum, the upload speed limit is due to protocol/DOCSIS limitations. Supposedly the new version of DOCSIS fixes this/allows for symmetrical service, and Spectrum has been rolling it out for a while now. Still waiting for it where I'm at...

I've seen this explanation, but it makes no sense ver year download upload 1.0 1997 40 Mbit/s 10 Mbit/s 1.1 2001 40 Mbit/s 10 Mbit/s 2.0 2002 40 Mbit/s 30 Mbit/s 3.0 2006 1 Gbit/s 200 Mbit/s 3.1 2013 10 Gbit/s 1–2 Gbit/s 4.0 2017 10 Gbit/s 6 Gbit/s the version previous to the "new version" uploads at 1-2gbit/s which is 40-80x the FCC value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#Comparison

These are the spec. Implementations vary. They vary in terms of chips, but also the way they get deployed on existing cable plant.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's all going over the same wire Yes and no. Even if it's going over the same wire, there are different data flows. Voice uses predictable amounts of bandwidth per phone number.

Minimum speed still requires almost all the equipment to be running.

Yes and no.

* Last mile has a downed line, yes that will result in a local outage

* Backhaul gets taken out. Re-route traffic. Drop/throttle non-SLA traffic

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zoom recommends 3.8Mbps for uploading 1080p video. Being able to do 1080p video conferencing is an expectation of broadband. Raising the definition of broadband to meet this basic requirement is clearly a win. I do think 25Mbps up is more than what's required for a large number of households (>33%). I have advised family that 15Mbps is adequate when they needed to do office work from home. Perhaps the only good thing…

I've been coping with 6 Mbps upload speeds from Xfinity for years now. This morning I got an email from them saying they were raising my speeds at no cost, and after a modem restart I'm now getting ~20 Mbps up. This whole time I've been told that Xfinity couldn't provide decent upload speeds because of infrastructure reasons, but now that's been proven a lie.

CATV was designed as a one-way pipe. There are filters everywhere in the network that block inbound traffic because there wasn't much of a reason for cable boxes to need to communicate with the wider network which meant that the bandwidth on the cable that was actually usable for upload bandwidth was orders of magnitude smaller than downloads. As Comcast basically rebuilds their network (fiber to the edge), they're bypassing and removing all of those filters which means that there's plenty of frequency for uploads.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#159

I oppose this. 100mbps just isn't what most people need. To most readers, this probably sounds innocuous, but I have some involvement in my city's digital equity community, so I have some insight into what this translates to for local governments and community organizations. Now what will happen is someone at the county level in charge of digital infrastructure will look at at a map and say "oh no, 40% of our populat…

Starlink is giving me over 150 up and 20 down during peak hours in a waitlist / oversubscribed area with a previous generation modem. They more than meet the new definition for broadband.

However, it doesn't scale nearly as well as just running fiber to the home, either in number of subscribers, or in per-home cost.

Some relatives live in an area with a phone co-op, and they ran trenchless underground fiber to each home in their service area. Population density is something like 1.2 people per square mile, and median income is ~ $20K. Monthly rates are extremely low. I watched the installers. It was two people and they were covering a good fraction of a mile per day. Equipment and material costs are negligible. There are communities in the SF bay area that are outside of telco monopoly territory. Trenching fiber here (in the mountains) runs something like $10K/house, which is $27/month when you amortize the cost out over 30 years.

The equity / subsidy programs I've seen are always just handouts for large ISPs that have established monopolies and that refuse to reinvest even a small fraction of their monthly revenue into network upgrades.

Establishing municipal broadband or broadband co-ops and giving them automatic right-of-way priority over the incumbents would fix this problem overnight. Either there would be a second fiber network that didn't suck, or the incumbents would actually invest in their networks.

Re: FCC Officially Raises Minimum Broadband Metric from 25Mbps to 100Mbps

#160
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On coax/cable lines like Charter/Spectrum, the upload speed limit is due to protocol/DOCSIS limitations. Supposedly the new version of DOCSIS fixes this/allows for symmetrical service, and Spectrum has been rolling it out for a while now. Still waiting for it where I'm at...

I've seen this explanation, but it makes no sense ver year download upload 1.0 1997 40 Mbit/s 10 Mbit/s 1.1 2001 40 Mbit/s 10 Mbit/s 2.0 2002 40 Mbit/s 30 Mbit/s 3.0 2006 1 Gbit/s 200 Mbit/s 3.1 2013 10 Gbit/s 1–2 Gbit/s 4.0 2017 10 Gbit/s 6 Gbit/s the version previous to the "new version" uploads at 1-2gbit/s which is 40-80x the FCC value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#Comparison

You may want to scroll down to the “throughput” section, instead of looking at the theoretical max.

The theoretical max up and download aren’t additive. It’s like saying that an egg carton can hold a max of 12 white eggs or 12 brown eggs. Good luck putting 24 eggs in it.

The DOCSIS standards carve up the available throughput, using some of that for upload and some for download.

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