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Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

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Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#131

Post by janalsncm »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #113
spxneo wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Building more homes in Vancouver will not result in lower prices because this is not a supply problem it is the financial assetization of home equity that drives higher and higher prices. Blue collar workers turned multi-millionaires rely on the continued rise of home prices to purchase cheap credit which they use to speculate on more homes. When they couldn't find anymore locals they turned to the international mark…

It is a mistake to blame the high cost of housing on market forces. It is largely the product of local housing policy. It is a choice.

I think it’s both. Housing policy can help or hurt but overall many places in the world have stuggled to keep housing prices affordable.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#132

Post by brailsafe »

systemstops wrote: post #119
Seattle3503 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why that matters? If others would offer the tribe a better offer, I'm sure they would accept it.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that the public is being manipulated by the moral framing of this project. The buildings would not be normally allowed in that area, and the proponents of project are using an explicit racial justice narrative to counteract criticism of their violation of norms. I'm agnostic about whether or not the project is good idea, but I think it's generally bad to manipulate people in…

The thing is, you don't need racism to make the adjacent residents seem like the people they are, it's just one more reason to build spite towers. They're standard rich boomers who'll show up to every hearing and persistently move the goal posts until any change is impossible, and they're on record doing so in a way that's beyond embarassing.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#133

Post by nickff »

stonogo wrote: post #127
ximus wrote: post #120

It's comforting to see first nations of canada recovering a central role in modern canadian society. However, having lived here for a year a year now, I have observed a concerning aspect of this re-integration, which is mentioned in the article: First nations aren't just propped back up and re-integrated in society, it goes further in that they are given special rights that go beyond what any other class of canadian…

> On moral grounds, I find it questionable to give some citizens special birth rights greater than others. Kind of the point here is that it was happening the other way for a couple hundred years, so just abrogating current inequality still leaves one party as a disadvantage. The hard part is deciding when these catch-up priveleges have run their course. Since first nations metrics along the lines of economic status…

Complicating this calculation is the way that the 'catch-up rights' are provided via tribal mechanisms, which incentivizes 'chiefs' and 'council members'/'elders' to prolong the inequality so that they can maintain their power & control.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#134

Post by jjjjj55555 »

wnc3141 wrote: post #109
reso wrote: post #105

I say this all as a YIMBY who is very happy to see 20k new units added to vancouver: something feels off about the plans for the Jericho lands but I can't describe it. I feel like when you have these mega developments where 10 condos go up all at once in the space of a few blocks, they end up as "bedroom neighborhoods", where people sleep but don't do anything else. There are a lot of these happening in Canada right…

If it is discontinuous with the broader urban fabric this is definitely a risk. Look up Ørestad in Copenhagen - a massive master planned area that never gained any of the hoped for vitality you would see elsewhere in the city. A decent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OMxzXsufq8

It seems like it had othe problems apart from being discontinuous from the city. There are lots of areas like this in the US which are contiguous with the city, that still end up as dead zones.

Did anyone really believe this was a good idea? I feel like the developers' need to turn a profit and the government's need to impose itself don't leave any good ideas on the table. Instead they focus on packaging up the same bad ideas just with different marketing.

When it inevitably doesn't work as promised, they just say oops, and move onto the next project.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#135

Post by r3d0c »

dukeyukey wrote: post #96
freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #59

The fact that the PNW is as expensive as the Bay area or even SoCal is a travesty. At least the first nation people figured out how to break the planning commission nonsense and took charge in their own communities. So long as they keep out the foreign hot funny money that made the regular cities too expensive they'll do just fine.

To be fair the PNW still has pretty good weather, gorgeous nature, good infrastructure (natural and man-made) and a varied economy. It'd be weird if it _wasn't_ expensive.

artificially more expensive because of outdated and backwards zoning laws keeping housing expensive

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#136

Post by comeonbro »

timmytokyo wrote: post #23
trimethylpurine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I missed the meaning of the quote. Skyscrapers are not an indigenous lifestyle. I suppose that's not okay to bring up in this context? If someone put skyscrapers on the last Hawaiian island I'd be pretty upset about it. The entire population of the Earth should be. Can't we leave one thing undeveloped? But okay, maybe there is plenty of land to go around in Canada that looks the same as this land, so I could…

In a city completely inundated with skyscrapers, it's odd -- and maybe a bit telling -- that some people become concerned for the first time in their lives only once an indigenous nation decides to build a skyscraper.

In a thread full of people with weird preconceptions talking past each-other, this is the most perfectly wrong statement anyone has made.

The people you're talking about would strangle this entire country to death (and have) before allowing a single 3-story building to be built outside of the small areas that were already been zoned for it 80 years ago.

The Canadian Indigenous identity issues tied up in this project are the only force that have ever been powerful enough to bludgeon them into submission, just this one time.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#137

Post by nvy »

ximus wrote: post #120

It's comforting to see first nations of canada recovering a central role in modern canadian society. However, having lived here for a year a year now, I have observed a concerning aspect of this re-integration, which is mentioned in the article: First nations aren't just propped back up and re-integrated in society, it goes further in that they are given special rights that go beyond what any other class of canadian…

>But on more practical grounds, this is creating a great big loophole for the traditional resource extraction companies to circumvent environment regulation by partnering with first nations on projects.

There's a certain demographic that can't accept that indigenous people might not be nature-worshipping druids that never pollute and are infallible stewards of the land, so through that lens of course they don't need to be subject to environmental regulations.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#138

Post by potmat »

Erikun wrote: post #10
lwansbrough wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of land/home ownership, what it has meant in other parts of the metro area, is leaseholds. You can “buy” a property at a slightly reduced cost which will be reclaimed after several decades (100 years?), usually starting from the time of development. In terms of laws, policing is handled by the local police force, ie. VPD. While there is rhetoric about sovereignty, practically speaking much of the challenging…

Sounds like it wouldn’t be any different from home ownership or renting in any other part of Vancouver then.

Really? Seems very different. There are some leaseholds on reservations near my cottage and "owning" one does not mean what you think it means. On a normal property as long as you pay your taxes it's yours in perpetuity, and the value tends to rise over time. With a leasehold it's never "yours" and can be taken away at a future date. The value approaches zero as the lease approaches its end date, since there's no guarantee it will be extended, so the property depreciates over time. This also has the effect of making any buildings on the property fairly dilapidated as the end-date nears, as the buildings can/will be confiscated with the lease (there's no incentive for the owner to maintain them).

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#139

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

stonogo wrote: post #127
ximus wrote: post #120

It's comforting to see first nations of canada recovering a central role in modern canadian society. However, having lived here for a year a year now, I have observed a concerning aspect of this re-integration, which is mentioned in the article: First nations aren't just propped back up and re-integrated in society, it goes further in that they are given special rights that go beyond what any other class of canadian…

> On moral grounds, I find it questionable to give some citizens special birth rights greater than others. Kind of the point here is that it was happening the other way for a couple hundred years, so just abrogating current inequality still leaves one party as a disadvantage. The hard part is deciding when these catch-up priveleges have run their course. Since first nations metrics along the lines of economic status…

This reminds me of the Malcolm X quote

> If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there.

Re: Vancouver’s new mega-development is big, ambitious and Indigenous

#140

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

spxneo wrote: post #102
camg55 wrote: post #90

Think this is great for Vancouver which needs more housing. The zoning is broken, and far too conservative. Glad to see the Squamish addressing a need that will likely benefit all, and hopefully this encourages the city of Vancouver to do the same on their own accord.

Building more homes in Vancouver will not result in lower prices because this is not a supply problem it is the financial assetization of home equity that drives higher and higher prices. Blue collar workers turned multi-millionaires rely on the continued rise of home prices to purchase cheap credit which they use to speculate on more homes. When they couldn't find anymore locals they turned to the international mark…

You could have saved a lot of time by just saying "fuck poor people"
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