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Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

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Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#171

Post by bossyTeacher »

ptero wrote: post #167
bossyTeacher wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, indeed many senior folks are cushioned hence all the moaning. Less financially stable folks are actually applying and prepping not stop because moaning online won't give you a job nor put food on the table. For the financially secure, the options are mostly the same. They just have the additional option of waiting. Their chances of getting a job similar to their previous one is still very low. While they have th…

Agree on "being unemployed does not look great", but senior, financially secure folks that chose to take a year off will likely have "developing tools to deploy X at Y at a stealth startup" or some such on their resume instead. Plus, IME "being umeployed is not great" applies just to chances of getting to the first technical interview. After that, it is just interview-based. Bottom line: I am not shedding any tears f…

I agree with you

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#172

Post by rhelz »

pylua wrote: post #113
rhelz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The economy is doomed. chuckle the economy is not doomed. Of course there's green badges on linked in, its not tik-tok, if you are on LinkedIn, you are probably there to look for a job. It seems like the sky is falling, but it's only tough in a few sectors of the economy. Unemployment is at historically low rates. We're not used to this kind of turbulence, because historically it has be us who have replaced employe…

Honestly, do people really believe the unemployment rates, or take them at face value? The real rate of employment is much worse. Not to mention that pay has not kept up with inflation. What would the employment rate look like if it had? Many low paying jobs are being created and since pay has not kept up it is barely a living wage.

> do people really believe the unemployment rates....

When the government measures what it calls the unemployment rate, you might wish that it were measuring what you call the unemployment rate, vs. what it calls the unemployment rate.

But at least the government's definition of the unemployment rate hasn't changed, and each time they measure it they are measuring the same thing.

So, even if you doubt the absolute number, you can still have confidence that if you can compare the current number with past numbers, you will get a reliable reading on whether things are moving in the right direction or not.

AS I said, high-tech is not used to facing this--it was us who were automating thing, and letting businesses do more with fewer people. Now its finally come around to us, and it sucks, but its nothing everybody else hasn't faced since the beginning of the industrial age.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#173

Post by rhelz »

kapp_in_life wrote: post #152
rhelz wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless management is totally incompetent Sooo...how do you measure how good a programmer is? You've got to cut $200,000 from your budget. You can lay off 2 junior programmers, or 1 senior programmer. How, exactly should management determine whether or not the senior programmer is worth twice what a junior programmer is? This is not a rhetorical question, and generalities like "keeps the juniors unblocked" are not a…

I mean.. thats the whole job for the manager? Through performance reviews and keeping track of the work their team is doing. If the senior is actually "unblocking projects" then it should be apparent. Project not making progress => senior gets involved => project making progress. Or senior gets involved and some architecture decision gets changed to alleviate some risk. If the senior is doing this but its a visibilit…

> I mean.. thats the whole job for the manager?

Sure, that's in management's wheelhouse....but really, have you never felt like your contributions to the team were undervalued? Or whether somebody else's contributions were overvalued?

> hey also need to self-advocate if the manager isn't proactively keeping track

Have you ever tried doing this? How did it work for ya? In my experience, its not a good idea to get yourself in a place where for you to be right, management has to be wrong. That's not a fight you are going to win.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#174

Post by mook »

phillipcarter wrote: post #162
jaredklewis wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but FAANG stock is very liquid. I’d you squint, it’s cash.

It is, but X over 4 years instead of X over one year is a pretty big difference. I suspect a lot of the ex-FAANG folks know this and are trying to push for it thinking they'll get that deal.

I don't think that's what you intended, but I initially read that as equity for the company previously known as Twitter. Yeah, that over 4 years is definitely very different than over one…

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#175

Post by Solvency »

rossdavidh wrote: post #166
mathattack wrote: post #13

My observation is that companies are getting much more precise on their needs. The days of “you’re smart and have a technical background” have given way to “there’s a dozen people in the market who have the exact experience we need, so we will limit our pool to them.” This is especially painful for college grads, who don’t have specific experience to fall back on.

Unfortunately in a lot of cases, this means they already know who they want to hire, but they're legally required to post the position publicly. Making the requirements for the position match the person they want to hire, allows them to screen out everyone else. The first time this happened to me from the other side, when I was the one who was being selected for, it felt very awkward.

If I run a company and need a developer for a specific position, I am fully legally allowed to simply offer it to someone that I want to hire. Without ever posting a job description.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#176

Post by VirusNewbie »

phillipcarter wrote: post #162
jaredklewis wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but FAANG stock is very liquid. I’d you squint, it’s cash.

It is, but X over 4 years instead of X over one year is a pretty big difference. I suspect a lot of the ex-FAANG folks know this and are trying to push for it thinking they'll get that deal.

Huh? It’s on the higher end but getting 200k stock a year vested is common enough for senior engineers at FAANG.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#178

Post by VirusNewbie »

swatcoder wrote: post #101
memset wrote: post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

> cannot afford FAANG salaries Avoid recruitment channels (like HN!) where FAANG people and FAANG-apirants congregate. > with lots of FAANG experience Use FAANG experience as an exclusion filter, not an inclusion filter. First, as you said, you can't afford the compensation that they're used to. Second, FAANG companies can absorb tons of bad talent in their hiring process and have mechanisms to both push that talent…

I’ve worked at startups, and non tech companies, and FAANG. The latter absolutely had the least amount of bad engineers.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#179

Post by infamouscow »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #156
rossdavidh wrote: post #52

So, as a 56yo who's been programming professionally since 2004, currently having trouble finding enough contract work, a bit of perspective: When there are more openings than qualified people, even when you reduce qualifications to what is actually necessary, it seems like there's "nobody" available. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, it seems like "nobody" is hiring. It's harsh, but it also doesn't take that m…

"There is no kind way to put this: a lot of stupid stuff got done with a lot of smart programmers in the last ten years." Any reasonable person would agree, but would the people in Silicon Valley agree.

It doesn't really matter what the folks in Silicon Valley think.

The innovators left Silicon Valley during the pandemic and spread out throughout the country. Those remaining are desperately clinging to a world that doesn't exist anymore, and probably won't ever again.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#180

Post by edgyquant »

throwaway4220 wrote: post #77
memset wrote: post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

Wow this is about how much the average radiologist makes after 10 years of postgraduate studies

Why do you believe radiologists somehow are more deserving than high level engineers?
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