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I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

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Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#111

Post by francisofascii »

tgv wrote: post #67

> After years of study, intensive therapy and earning a Ph.D. in psychology, I can say that sociopaths aren’t “bad” or “evil” or “crazy.” We simply have ... Holy moral vacuum, Batman. That is not true, at all. First, psychology doesn't do ethics. It tries (not very well, I may add) to find causes for behavior, emotions, feelings, and social and cognitive processes. But it doesn't justify nor condemn those. Second, st…

What I get from that comment is sociopaths are not motivated by evil behaviors. And so the comment aims to differentiate sociopaths from those who are out to kill and destroy.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#112

Post by AndrewKemendo »

h2odragon wrote: post #55
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #44

I’m really worried that there’s a trend to normalize narcissistic and sociopathic behavior simply because “they are self aware” There are a few ASPD, NPD or narcissist Instagram pages which are clearly sociopaths getting their attention fix by acknowledging and describing these behaviors - this isn’t the same as recovery groups or serious interventions because ASPD has been seen as impossible to treat (though that’s…

So what would you tell a "smart sociopath" to do? Someone who wants to live and pursue their own happiness without diminishing that of others? Should they just cease to exist? Retreat somewhere they can't hurt others and live apart from society because society has no place for their disability? Or is it possible to fit in and be useful even if you're neuro divergent?

I genuinely don’t know because there’s no rehabilitation structure that the medical system has identified as useful

Low IQ sociopaths are typically institutionalized or are homeless of some sort

High IQ sociopaths tend to be managers or intermediaries that do not break laws but exploit social graciousness and live in the minutae or vagaries

So my answer is: get them out of your org or life as quickly as possible and don’t look back.

I’m trying to create a world where acting like a narcissist is effectively impossible - the world we have created promotes narcissistic behavior

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#113

Post by toomuchtodo »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #94
Lio wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's not hurting anybody. Well he did insist that other members of his team also take EPO, HGH, blood transfusions (occasionally with bad blood), etc. We don't know what the long term affects of that will be but he certainly wasn't thinking of health of his staff. He also destroyed Greg LeMond's career for exposing him.

They're adults and can make their own decisions

Might be a sociopath, look into it.

Seriously though, this ignores that sometimes, being of age of consent ("an adult") does not mean there is a free will choice available.

Edit: @bombcar Stealing that, thank you!

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#114

Post by BLKNSLVR »

stareatgoats wrote: post #96

This is an area where we don't know the answers yet, but we're fumbling along. The main question that is still up for debate is this: Are people really completely set in their personalities, so that we can say that this person IS a psychopath, that person IS a liar, I AM an upstanding citizen etc. The tendency for claiming such clearly comes from our current zeitgeist with its propensity for fixing labels to people,…

This joke was told to me as "Luigi the Bridge Builder", but has come in many other forms:

https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcgonagall-the-bridge-buil...

Not the current zeitgeist, just how humans categorise things naturally.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#115

Post by h2odragon »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #112
h2odragon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would you tell a "smart sociopath" to do? Someone who wants to live and pursue their own happiness without diminishing that of others? Should they just cease to exist? Retreat somewhere they can't hurt others and live apart from society because society has no place for their disability? Or is it possible to fit in and be useful even if you're neuro divergent?

I genuinely don’t know because there’s no rehabilitation structure that the medical system has identified as useful Low IQ sociopaths are typically institutionalized or are homeless of some sort High IQ sociopaths tend to be managers or intermediaries that do not break laws but exploit social graciousness and live in the minutae or vagaries So my answer is: get them out of your org or life as quickly as possible and…

And if it is my life?

I've got a lonely mountain in the woods, way out with few neighbors. me and my hounds can hunt and not bother nobody.

I find it difficult for numerous reasons to interact with people in social situations, not least being that people smell tasty. My awareness of this fact is something that people pick up on. it snowballs.

It'd be nice if I could contribute to society but there's not that many ways I've found, and i've mostly given up trying. now i settle for Socratic snark.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#116

Post by yetihehe »

coldtea wrote: post #91
em-bee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's very difficult when you have a trait that others can't see, and therefore can't be aware of or understand, and much less empathize with. it feels wrong because you keep getting confronted with expectations that you can't fulfill. and you can't see others that have the same experience. so you end up feeling you are the only one.

Yeah, and people say "being different is fine", "you're not wrong, you're you" and so on, but in the end unless you're one of socially accepted forms of different that are celebrated, they still shun you.

Or "just be yourself". It's good when your "yourself" meets their expectations.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#117

Post by AndrewKemendo »

haswell wrote: post #60
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #44

I’m really worried that there’s a trend to normalize narcissistic and sociopathic behavior simply because “they are self aware” There are a few ASPD, NPD or narcissist Instagram pages which are clearly sociopaths getting their attention fix by acknowledging and describing these behaviors - this isn’t the same as recovery groups or serious interventions because ASPD has been seen as impossible to treat (though that’s…

> This isn’t a disability, sociopathy is a self-propelled toxic character trait, typically resulting from deep childhood trauma that our society rewards structurally I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make here. If this is a result of deep childhood trauma, in what way is it self propelled? > Mostly we just need to identify and isolate people with ASPD as quickly as possible. This seems pretty horrific to…

I’d make a strong argument that the vast majority of the world’s ills are a result of narcissists being in charge of most of the organizations worldwide

You seem to have in mind some poor beaten down person struggling to survive

Instead these are the people I’m talking about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/13/tim-gurner-u...

Basically every banker, vc, public company CEO, dictatorial district manager, slave driving dispatcher, cold calling scammer etc….

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#118

Post by stareatgoats »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #114
stareatgoats wrote: post #96

This is an area where we don't know the answers yet, but we're fumbling along. The main question that is still up for debate is this: Are people really completely set in their personalities, so that we can say that this person IS a psychopath, that person IS a liar, I AM an upstanding citizen etc. The tendency for claiming such clearly comes from our current zeitgeist with its propensity for fixing labels to people,…

This joke was told to me as "Luigi the Bridge Builder", but has come in many other forms: https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcgonagall-the-bridge-buil... Not the current zeitgeist, just how humans categorise things naturally.

Heh, that's actually one of my favorite Norm Macdonald jokes. Didn't know that it wasn't his invention though, thanks.

And fwiw, yeah, this covers the conundrum nicely.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#119

Post by dirtybirdnj »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #44

I’m really worried that there’s a trend to normalize narcissistic and sociopathic behavior simply because “they are self aware” There are a few ASPD, NPD or narcissist Instagram pages which are clearly sociopaths getting their attention fix by acknowledging and describing these behaviors - this isn’t the same as recovery groups or serious interventions because ASPD has been seen as impossible to treat (though that’s…

> This isn’t a disability, sociopathy is a self-propelled toxic character trait, typically resulting from deep childhood trauma that our society rewards structurally.

> Mostly we just need to identify and isolate people with ASPD as quickly as possible.

I find this interesting as it relates to the autism spectrum... there is pretty universal resistance to accommodating / understanding the difficulties people face. It seems like a really uphill battle to get people who benefit from their toxicity to voluntarily take a "more difficult" route than they otherwise can.

I suggest that we don't need to do anything with the APSD folks, what we need to do is normalize the idea that their behavior is abusive and support folks who are structurally disadvantaged via their behaviors.

If enough of regular society gets tired of their shit they will take corrective action... until their behavior "looks bad" to others they have no incentive to cooperate.

Re: I always knew I was different, I didn't know I was a sociopath

#120

Post by AndrewKemendo »

dirtybirdnj wrote: post #119
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #44

I’m really worried that there’s a trend to normalize narcissistic and sociopathic behavior simply because “they are self aware” There are a few ASPD, NPD or narcissist Instagram pages which are clearly sociopaths getting their attention fix by acknowledging and describing these behaviors - this isn’t the same as recovery groups or serious interventions because ASPD has been seen as impossible to treat (though that’s…

> This isn’t a disability, sociopathy is a self-propelled toxic character trait, typically resulting from deep childhood trauma that our society rewards structurally. > Mostly we just need to identify and isolate people with ASPD as quickly as possible. I find this interesting as it relates to the autism spectrum... there is pretty universal resistance to accommodating / understanding the difficulties people face. It…

Fully concur and I think you describe better what I mean by isolate

The idea of isolating those people is that we actively reject abusive narcissistic behavior with no qualifications. That means it’s a one strike you’re out rule socially for toxic behavior

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