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Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

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31–40 of 76 posts

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#31
I would hypothesize that SES probably correlates very heavily with grades at the very bottom where you have things like abuse, abject poverty, children supporting their own parents, lack of access to quality nutrition, violence inside and outside the home, etc and even a genius would be swimming against the current. But middle class and above, I would expect the curve to flatten out. In my experience super wealthy people are more lucky than clever- it doesn’t take much brains to make more money when you’re already rich.

So, the goal here should be to identify smart kids in terrible situations, while not allowing rich kids who aren’t actually that talented to game the system. That’s the goal. And of course there will also be genuinely talented middle class kids and you don’t want to ignore them either.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#32

i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.

It's ironic to conclude this, without skepticism, knowing that it's a study sponsored by College Board which shows that the tests which College Board administers are definitely efficacious.

Sure; but do you disagree with the method or the conclusions?

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#33
post #4

i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.

Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…

Regression to the mean is a real thing though. The reason why is this: every gene in your body is also in the bodies of millions of other people. Your genes are not unique. It’s the combination that’s unique. And the combination is diluted 50% with each generation. So Einstein was a prodigy and a genius, but his great grandchildren are pretty ordinary. That’s just the way it goes.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#34

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

Except the research doesn't show this at all. However, having wealth provides tutors, better schooling and teachers which lead to better outcomes from having better mentors, opportunities and education which leads to... and so on and so on.

Right, that is step 6.

If you go over the research, you realize that they all assume the premise "everyone is born with an identical blank slate". Which leads to conclusions (either said outright or implied) like; "If you give enough resources to any given child, they can grow up to be anything."

So we end up with schools that serve low income areas getting enormous amounts of funding to teach admin assistants and tile layers to be heart surgeons. And the data on that end shows unequivocally that it is not working.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#35
post #29

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

>The emperor is walking around naked, and virtually all of academia is terrified to acknowledge it (namely step 5). Right there is the solution to 50 years of sociological fumbling to avoid saying "Intelligence has a strong genetic component, and we are not all born with equal mental capabilities" Bien-pensants will tell us to the bitter end "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" But they are aware of…

I have no interest in bringing race into this because of the wide genetic difference between groups that common people would label as being the same "race". Genetically there is wide diversity even within relatively small geographical areas.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#36

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

It's worth remembering this next time you hear someone say something along the lines of, "I believe in equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome". If people are indeed born with unequal abilities, then equality of opportunity is impossible.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#37

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

The problem with this is that it is utterly ahistorical. Like it completely ignores every observation you could make about how wealth was historically allocated.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the research doesn't show this at all. However, having wealth provides tutors, better schooling and teachers which lead to better outcomes from having better mentors, opportunities and education which leads to... and so on and so on.

Right, that is step 6. If you go over the research, you realize that they all assume the premise "everyone is born with an identical blank slate". Which leads to conclusions (either said outright or implied) like; "If you give enough resources to any given child, they can grow up to be anything." So we end up with schools that serve low income areas getting enormous amounts of funding to teach admin assistants and ti…

> And the data on that end shows unequivocally that it is not working.

Of course throwing money at (sometimes corrupt) school boards isn’t going to be effective. There isn’t much 1/20th of a school teacher can do 8am-2pm M-F to counter a bad environment. It takes a village after all.

Not exactly data that’s useful to your hypothesis.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#39

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

The book "The Bell Curve" basically expressed the same point -- with data-- as yours here. And yeah, you are right. But then everyone is terrified by it, and hence the outcryand the name calling.

Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]

#40
post #37

1.) Intelligent people befriend other intelligent people. 2.) Intelligent people get higher paying jobs. 3.) Intelligent people live in wealthier areas. 4.) Intelligent people marry other intelligent people. 5.) Intelligent people birth intelligent children. 6.) Intelligent people use their intelligence to augment their kid's intelligence. 7.) Intelligent kids go to step 1.) The emperor is walking around naked, and v…

The problem with this is that it is utterly ahistorical. Like it completely ignores every observation you could make about how wealth was historically allocated.

I mean, I just laid out how you end up with wealth dynasties. And this effect is observable in any population, it's not unique to the US, much less the the West.
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