i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
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Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
11–20 of 76 posts
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#12Wouldn't socioeconomic status correlate just as strongly or even more with high school AP grades and extracurriculars?
It seems that these would require more discretionary time, as well as discretionary money, when comoared to the SAT.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#13i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…
I've never understood the model of the world that people who don't agree with this.
My take is people question the tests because wealthy/powerful people have a history of "gaming the system" in order to retain that wealth/power. It's not unreasonable to ask "is the test predictive of anything other than the parent's ability to hire a tutor?" While a test is, in theory, easy for a poor student to pass through independent studies/library, etc, reality gets in the way - that student needs transport to the library, time to study (many work), etc.
But, based on this research, it seems the answer is "Yes, the test is actually predictive of something other than parent's SES."
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#14I can get almost all the questions correct on the SAT test without any time pressure but when I do it when the clock is ticking, I find myself unable to reason my way to the correct answer nowhere near as fast. As a result, I have to move on and skip 1/2 of the verbal and math questions because I don't have enough time. And I don't draw blank when under pressure so there must be something else going on.
I have tried to pretend that I'm an LLM and trained myself on hundreds of SAT questions on YouTUbe where people solve them. I've found that my reasoning speed under time pressure is a direct function of the amount data I've trained myself on.
Is there a quicker way to this or do people like me, with average IQ or Chat-GPT 3.5 if you will, have to train on thousands of math and verbal questions because we don't have the Chat-GPT4 like the gifted people where they ara able to be creative and don't need to rely only on past knowledge to solve novel problems?
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#15Relatedly, UT Austin found the SAT highly predictive and decided to reinstate the requirement: https://news.utexas.edu/2024/03/11/ut-austin-reinstates-stan... > Those who opted in had a median SAT score of 1420, compared with a median of 1160 among those who did not. > The higher standardized scores translated on average to better collegiate academic performance. Of 9,217 first-year students enrolled in 2023, those w…
But, is first-semester GPA predictive of anything? I'd rather see this result at graduation. Does the higher SAT predict higher graduation rate, better grad school or job placement, or anything else? Note, I'm not arguing it won't be - I don't know. I just know more than a few people who bombed their first semester (most with SATs well above average), myself included, who ended up with decent academic performance onc…
I did terribly in first year, scraped through second year and did really well in third and fourth years - to the point of getting a first and a class prize. I don't think it was anything to do with "shock being away from home" - but actually realising that some things require hard work.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#16I can get almost all the questions correct on the SAT test without any time pressure but when I do it when the clock is ticking, I find myself unable to reason my way to the correct answer nowhere near as fast. As a result, I have to move on and skip 1/2 of the verbal and math questions because I don't have enough time. And I don't draw blank when under pressure so there must be something else going on. I have tried…
Yes, there are ways to speed up your time. When I took the SAT (2011), the main skill I developed was to quickly categorize the kind of question. Since there are only a few different kinds of questions, you could train yourself to do this formulaically/algorithmically. The type of question tells you how to eliminate a couple of the answer choices, and then you apply another question-type-specific algorithm to figure out the answer from the remaining options.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
But, is first-semester GPA predictive of anything? I'd rather see this result at graduation. Does the higher SAT predict higher graduation rate, better grad school or job placement, or anything else? Note, I'm not arguing it won't be - I don't know. I just know more than a few people who bombed their first semester (most with SATs well above average), myself included, who ended up with decent academic performance onc…
I did terribly in first year, scraped through second year and did really well in third and fourth years - to the point of getting a first and a class prize. I don't think it was anything to do with "shock being away from home" - but actually realising that some things require hard work.
Oh, for me, it was definitely "no parents? Party!" That got old pretty quickly, just not quickly enough to save my first semester grades.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#18i.e. socioeconomic status is correlated with SAT performance because socioeconomic status is also correlated with stronger basic academic skills.
Yeah, the article ends with: > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of…
> Yeah, the article ends with:
> > In conclusion, our work focuses on the predictive power of admissions tests and shows that this power is not an artifact of SES. There is a substantial SES–test relationship, though it is important to note that test scores reflect far more than SES. About a quarter of the variance in test scores is shared with SES, and thus there is large variability in test scores at any given level of SES. Thus, claims that tests are merely proxies for SES are unfounded
> I've never understood the model of the world that people who don't agree with this. If you believe that
> a) genetics exist, and traits such as intelligence are therefore hereditary;
> and
> b) socioeconomic success is correlated to intelligence
That is only true up to a certain level though. The correlation plateaus and even decreases above 1%
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/02/230208125113.h...
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#19I can get almost all the questions correct on the SAT test without any time pressure but when I do it when the clock is ticking, I find myself unable to reason my way to the correct answer nowhere near as fast. As a result, I have to move on and skip 1/2 of the verbal and math questions because I don't have enough time. And I don't draw blank when under pressure so there must be something else going on. I have tried…
Yes, there are ways to speed up your time. When I took the SAT (2011), the main skill I developed was to quickly categorize the kind of question. Since there are only a few different kinds of questions, you could train yourself to do this formulaically/algorithmically. The type of question tells you how to eliminate a couple of the answer choices, and then you apply another question-type-specific algorithm to figure…
The Kaplan book (or similar) went over this. You learn to avoid “solving the problem the hard way” as much as possible.
However, the new digital SAT will require new strategies because its computer assisted, more like the LSAT/GRE (?) is.
Re: Socioeconomic status and the relationship between the SAT and GPA (2009) [pdf]
#20For me, I got much, much better SAT scores than my grades would suggest, because my grades were depressed significantly due to ADHD, (forgetfulness, never remembering when tests were going to happen, going off on tangents when studying) even though I actually knew the material. So the standardized tests were a chance to prove that I wasn’t a total dummy.
And you know, I think that’s kind of the point of a standardized test- grades definitely vary based on how involved your parents are, the particular teachers you have, whether you have adhd, and yes socioeconomic status- tests in principal are blind to all that stuff.