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Care

johan.hal.se

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Re: Care

#61

Post by hawski »

smaudet wrote: post #56
_factor wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re being mildly facetious, but profit doesn’t come from thin air (or does it?). If you spend $.30 to grow and ship bananas and charge $1, that $.70 difference is just a made up number by what you hope is a fair market. A dark pattern is just a way of maximizing that difference unethically. I’ll ignore the clustering and trust structures that form naturally, but those are long-term dark patterns as well.

> profit doesn’t come from thin air (or does it?) It doesn't. Its supposed to come from your operating costs (cost of living + insurance costs). That is supposed to be where the prices come from, the problem is the insurance...if the cost of insurance approaches infinity due to infinite uncertainty, then "dark patterns" become "coping mechanisms". Not that I'm saying airline booking websites are in the moral right he…

What do you mean practically by: "the cost of insurance approaches infinity due to infinite uncertainty"?

Re: Care

#62

Post by actionfromafar »

yen223 wrote: post #30
lkrubner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I remember in 2012 we joked that if you used enough Javascript you could get the Web in 2012 up to the level that VisualBasic 1.0 offered back in 1991. But we were certain that in 10 years, by 2022, we'd up to the level offered by VisualBasic 6.0, which would have been amazing, because VisualBasic 6.0 had been amazing. I've been stunned by the lack of progress. The major browser companies/projects have largel…

> What is the hold up? Why isn't this happening? One of the problems, and arguably one of its strengths, with the modern web is that there's no single "entity" that owns everything. A large part of why this isn't happening is that there are too many parties involved in the web - browser implementers, standards maintainers, and web developers. If you want to introduce a new feature to the web standard, it's not enough…

Is it Apple and Google?

Re: Care

#63

Post by yobbo »

> And it would! If you would just let the browser do what it wants to do!

Ok, so it's an incentives/management problem. The people doing the work have no reason to care.

Also, I suspect some of it might be caused by misuse of frameworks.

Re: Care

#64

Post by edwr »

hawski wrote: post #61
smaudet wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> profit doesn’t come from thin air (or does it?) It doesn't. Its supposed to come from your operating costs (cost of living + insurance costs). That is supposed to be where the prices come from, the problem is the insurance...if the cost of insurance approaches infinity due to infinite uncertainty, then "dark patterns" become "coping mechanisms". Not that I'm saying airline booking websites are in the moral right he…

What do you mean practically by: "the cost of insurance approaches infinity due to infinite uncertainty"?

In the same way the risk premium of a financial security is proportional to its riskiness.

Re: Care

#65

Post by andsoitis »

> My father called me in exasperation last night after trying and failing to book a plane ticket. I find myself having to go over to their house and do things like switch browsers, open private windows, occasionally even open up the Web Inspector to fiddle with the markup, and I hate every second of it.

What an unusual case! I have been booking plane tickets online for a very very long time and very often and I have never had to resort to these gymnastics.

Re: Care

#66

Post by andsoitis »

smaudet wrote: post #56
_factor wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re being mildly facetious, but profit doesn’t come from thin air (or does it?). If you spend $.30 to grow and ship bananas and charge $1, that $.70 difference is just a made up number by what you hope is a fair market. A dark pattern is just a way of maximizing that difference unethically. I’ll ignore the clustering and trust structures that form naturally, but those are long-term dark patterns as well.

> profit doesn’t come from thin air (or does it?) It doesn't. Its supposed to come from your operating costs (cost of living + insurance costs). That is supposed to be where the prices come from, the problem is the insurance...if the cost of insurance approaches infinity due to infinite uncertainty, then "dark patterns" become "coping mechanisms". Not that I'm saying airline booking websites are in the moral right he…

> operating costs (cost of living + insurance costs). That is supposed to be where the prices come from

That isn’t the only way to set price.

Common methods are:

- Value-Based Pricing

- Cost-Plus Pricing (your example)

- Competitive Pricing

- Psychological Pricing

- Dynamic Pricing

- Bundle Pricing

- Promotional Pricing

Re: Care

#67

Post by [deleted] »

crooked-v wrote: post #10

I feel like a lot of the problems with web UX come from browsers never natively implementing even basic functionality needed for many web apps, like comboboxes, menus, tab panels, etc. Then there's the endless layers of fiddly work needed to make accessibility work cross-platform (check out all the work Adobe puts into the react-aria project for an example), and that there's still fundamentally no browser-native no-J…

[deleted]

Re: Care

#68

Post by orng »

I think part of the problem is that there seems to be a widespread sentiment among software developers to prioritize our time above the user's. Ease of development trumps ease of use and features are made to be easy, or rather fast, to build rather than easy to use and performant.

As a young developer I was taught to take the extra time to make things better for the user. Even if it might mean spending two days on a feature rather than a few hours, the cumulative time saved would end up much more than the extra time I spent since users use your software more often than you write it and there are many users. Unfortunately this view is not widespread enough.

Re: Care

#69

Post by cxr »

> everyone is doing their best given the conditions they’re in

Generous, but almost certainly untrue.

Re: Care

#70

Post by ersamsa »

orng wrote: post #68

I think part of the problem is that there seems to be a widespread sentiment among software developers to prioritize our time above the user's. Ease of development trumps ease of use and features are made to be easy, or rather fast, to build rather than easy to use and performant. As a young developer I was taught to take the extra time to make things better for the user. Even if it might mean spending two days on a…

„it‘s not economical to build good software“
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