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How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

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Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#91

Post by waterheater »

wodenokoto wrote: post #89
sema4hacker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If YouTube had a Dewey decimal style clickable directory it would be a lot easier to find content.

A librarian friend had the same complaint. The problem is that libraries Dewey decimals are managed by librarians who want to sort things correctly. YouTube would be managed by uploaders who wants their stuff to be managed _incorrectly_. YouTube recommendations and search is a super interesting problem not just because of the scale but also because uploaders are an adverse opponent, trying to keyword stuff their spam…

The obvious solution is to actually have librarians correctly classify the videos. DDS focuses on the nature of the work itself, not on the keywords or spam in the content. Librarians understand how to class all kinds of works, and it should be relatively simple to build a DDS/MDS index (Melville Decimal System since it's open, see https://librarything.com/mds) for YouTube videos. Just like with books, disagreement on classification is inevitable and perfectly natural; there's no perfect classification scheme, though DDS/MDS does a generally good job.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#92

Post by lebuffon »

xattt wrote: post #68
lebuffon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. From the advent of radio broadcasting telephone lines were used for everything, audio and even DC signalling to control relays. All remote radio broadcasts used at least two lines. One for sending sound back to the station and a 2nd pair (telephone lines are a balanced pair of wires) for "cue" that came from the master control room to the remote site. Since most transmitters were located outside of city l…

You mention two telephony lines were used for comms between station and site. Was the quality of audio for remote broadcasts better than a typical phone call?

Yes. The audio quality of land line phones was dictated primarily by transducers. This was by design. The TIA published specs for USA, Canada had their own as well as most other countries.

The response of a twisted pair was pretty good over 2 to 4 miles as I recall but for a audio grade (50Hz to 5000Hz) various techniques were used that at the simplest involved coils but there were also active equalizers available for long haul circuits and/or "hi-fi" requirements. Remember DSL lines were/are shipping 1..2Mhz carriers over those same old telco lines. :-)

Of course some old trunk lines used paper insulation. Really. Which meant noise went up ... when it rained.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#93

Post by lebuffon »

riffic wrote: post #13
lebuffon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. From the advent of radio broadcasting telephone lines were used for everything, audio and even DC signalling to control relays. All remote radio broadcasts used at least two lines. One for sending sound back to the station and a 2nd pair (telephone lines are a balanced pair of wires) for "cue" that came from the master control room to the remote site. Since most transmitters were located outside of city l…

they would have had the operator reverse the charges I assume? by the way the old bell system technical journals are a fun read and are generally available at places like archive.org

These were called "leased" lines. You ordered them and the Telco set them up for you and billed you like any other service.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#94

Post by hollerith »

lebuffon wrote: post #93
riffic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they would have had the operator reverse the charges I assume? by the way the old bell system technical journals are a fun read and are generally available at places like archive.org

These were called "leased" lines. You ordered them and the Telco set them up for you and billed you like any other service.

The internet began on leased lines.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#96

Post by ghaff »

treflop wrote: post #72
cj wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some quick googling shows cinematic film cameras in 1930/40 used to cost $100k-$300k adjusted for inflation. Today, the cheapest Netflix-approved camera is $2k [0] Lower barrier to entry is a blessing and a curse. Signal v noise, etc. [0] https://noamkroll.com/the-3-most-affordable-netflix-approved...

It's even lower. The FS7 on that list is more like $1,000 these days. (Not that I would consider all those cameras on the Netflix list cinematic. Some are geared more towards documentary.)

And not that it's contrary to the $1K price point but, I think, Apple's last event was filmed with iPhones albeit with a lot of expensive lighting and other gear/people.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#97

Post by ghaff »

waterheater wrote: post #91
wodenokoto wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A librarian friend had the same complaint. The problem is that libraries Dewey decimals are managed by librarians who want to sort things correctly. YouTube would be managed by uploaders who wants their stuff to be managed _incorrectly_. YouTube recommendations and search is a super interesting problem not just because of the scale but also because uploaders are an adverse opponent, trying to keyword stuff their spam…

The obvious solution is to actually have librarians correctly classify the videos. DDS focuses on the nature of the work itself, not on the keywords or spam in the content. Librarians understand how to class all kinds of works, and it should be relatively simple to build a DDS/MDS index (Melville Decimal System since it's open, see https://librarything.com/mds ) for YouTube videos. Just like with books, disagreement…

Dewey Decimal is probably not actually appropriate but it would be nice to have a good and appropriate classification scheme be used.

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#98

Post by colordrops »

mhuffman wrote: post #8
rightbyte wrote: post #4

In it's simplicity it is genius. I had no clue this was a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirephoto I really like these old "explaining" films. The pedagogical level is far higher than what seems common today. And the they take their time to convey the message.

>I really like these old "explaining" films. The pedagogical level is far higher than what seems common today. And the they take their time to convey the message. I wonder what happened? I have been blown away by some of the older explainer videos from the 40s and 50s, esp. some of the military training videos for vehicle repair, electrical engineering, etc. Very concise and very clear explanations, always with visua…

Check out Jared Owen's explainer 3D videos on Youtube. some of the best I've ever seen, and relatively recent. Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iod6uwUGM2E

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#99

Post by wodenokoto »

waterheater wrote: post #91
wodenokoto wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A librarian friend had the same complaint. The problem is that libraries Dewey decimals are managed by librarians who want to sort things correctly. YouTube would be managed by uploaders who wants their stuff to be managed _incorrectly_. YouTube recommendations and search is a super interesting problem not just because of the scale but also because uploaders are an adverse opponent, trying to keyword stuff their spam…

The obvious solution is to actually have librarians correctly classify the videos. DDS focuses on the nature of the work itself, not on the keywords or spam in the content. Librarians understand how to class all kinds of works, and it should be relatively simple to build a DDS/MDS index (Melville Decimal System since it's open, see https://librarything.com/mds ) for YouTube videos. Just like with books, disagreement…

> The obvious solution is to actually have librarians correctly classify the videos

Which videos? The 500 hours of video uploaded every minute?

Re: How photos were transmitted by wire in the 1930s

#100

Post by Tor3 »

anovikov wrote: post #36

1930s? These machines were widely in use even in the very end of the Soviet era like in 1989 or so, in the USSR. I personally seen them in operation in post offices being a kid. I think the very last of them fell out of use when modern faxes appeared but just like telegrams existed for a while when email was already a thing, i think these stayed formally available even if not in demand, well into 1990s.

Not sure if it's the same tech or just similar, but all newspapers used to transmit photos from correspondents by telephone, all the way up to the eighties at least. I remember seeing it in practice - I was taking part in a multi-day bicycling competition, and a newspaper sent a two-person team to follow the tour. They developed their photos in their hotel room every evening, and sent them by phone to the newspaper back home, and the newspaper had a new story with photos every day.
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