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Care

johan.hal.se

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21–30 of 92 posts

Re: Care

#21

Post by myth2018 »

> My father called me in exasperation last night after trying and failing to book a plane ticket

I've been going through really infuriating experiences with airlines' software too. Web apps, totems for luggage dispatching, everything. I know it's hard to pinpoint a single cause, but I believe that the current trend of overemphasizing aesthetics plays a major role on the current deplorable state of affairs: applications get too hard to design and build and at the end of the day there's simply not enough time to properly test things and fix its bugs.

Re: Care

#22

Post by patch_cable »

roenxi wrote: post #12
TehShrike wrote: post #7

One of the top things that I want in a job is coworkers who care obsessively.

Well, y'know. You're likely to be better off if you put that desire to one side and focus within. Consider a soup kitchen vs a supermarket checkout. The people working at the soup kitchen arguably care a lot more. The person at the supermarket checkout can be as glassy eyed as they feel and still be part of feeding more people in absolute terms. Humans seem to have some sort of emotional heuristic to focus on care (r…

How would you describe the difference between thoughtful and caring?

Re: Care

#23

Post by ISL »

jrm4 wrote: post #17

Sure -- but lets be clear about what this is a function of; this is misplaced incentives. There's nothing (yet) incentivizing a clean, efficient, pleasant web, owing to the fact that scale of the stuff the web connects to/makes available doesn't have any meaningful "competition" whatsoever.

Clean and efficient web (for consumers) isn't terribly profitable.

Craigslist could make a lot more money, especially in the short-term, with different design and monetization choices.

Re: Care

#25

Post by crooked-v »

freeone3000 wrote: post #18
lkrubner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I remember in 2012 we joked that if you used enough Javascript you could get the Web in 2012 up to the level that VisualBasic 1.0 offered back in 1991. But we were certain that in 10 years, by 2022, we'd up to the level offered by VisualBasic 6.0, which would have been amazing, because VisualBasic 6.0 had been amazing. I've been stunned by the lack of progress. The major browser companies/projects have largel…

Input type=“date” was added and is supported in HTML5, no js required. Same with time!

...which is great as long as you don't need a calendar on the page itself, or a calendar that shows two months instead of one, or a calendar where you can display information on dates or block selection of certain dates, or a calendar you can add any CSS styling to, or... you get the idea.

Re: Care

#26

Post by serf »

TehShrike wrote: post #7

One of the top things that I want in a job is coworkers who care obsessively.

it's a double-edged sword. I want balance rather than obsession.

Re: Care

#27

Post by toastercat »

jachee wrote: post #16
chime wrote: post #9

Web and modern tech can be fantastic if you take away the dark patterns. The UX for booking a flight isn't complex because reserving a seat or taking your card is difficult. It's complex because low margin businesses like airlines can make more money up-selling extra legroom or travel insurance. Take away the dark patterns and incentive to eek every last dollar from the user and the entire web can be neal.fun.

Take away enough dark patterns and you eventually kill Capitalism. :)

Shh you can't say that on Hacker News.

Re: Care

#28

Post by jaggederest »

irjustin wrote: post #20
TehShrike wrote: post #7

One of the top things that I want in a job is coworkers who care obsessively.

> One of the top things that I want in a job is coworkers who care obsessively. While I agree with the premise, the "downstream" really matters though. There's a lot of different ways to care obsessively and many are quite toxic if you've ever worked with them. One example comes to mind is I've been there were PR comments are way overbearing. There's definitely good points/notes, but nitpicking, snide comments, holie…

I'm going to plug my PR log level policy here: I add a tag to my PRs asking for "error level" or "debug level" or whatever in between. Then the reviewer can tune their feedback. I started doing this when I was working with a diverse group of folks with different backgrounds. I'd like it to be a standard thing.

I find that I want different kinds of feedback through the process of developing a PR, and whether it's over a day or a month matters a lot too.

That way, I can safely be obsessive about things when giving PR feedback, in the knowledge they're asking for "debug level" feedback, or give it just-the-facts review if they're just trying to get something merged that has been reviewed to hell and back.

Re: Care

#29

Post by roenxi »

patch_cable wrote: post #22
roenxi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, y'know. You're likely to be better off if you put that desire to one side and focus within. Consider a soup kitchen vs a supermarket checkout. The people working at the soup kitchen arguably care a lot more. The person at the supermarket checkout can be as glassy eyed as they feel and still be part of feeding more people in absolute terms. Humans seem to have some sort of emotional heuristic to focus on care (r…

How would you describe the difference between thoughtful and caring?

Maybe I'd pick on an auditor as an example. They need to think about whether people are doing what they say they do. They don't need to care about what they are doing.

To me, caring means expecting work to be done to your standards instead of an independent standard.

Re: Care

#30

Post by yen223 »

lkrubner wrote: post #14
crooked-v wrote: post #10

I feel like a lot of the problems with web UX come from browsers never natively implementing even basic functionality needed for many web apps, like comboboxes, menus, tab panels, etc. Then there's the endless layers of fiddly work needed to make accessibility work cross-platform (check out all the work Adobe puts into the react-aria project for an example), and that there's still fundamentally no browser-native no-J…

Agreed. I remember in 2012 we joked that if you used enough Javascript you could get the Web in 2012 up to the level that VisualBasic 1.0 offered back in 1991. But we were certain that in 10 years, by 2022, we'd up to the level offered by VisualBasic 6.0, which would have been amazing, because VisualBasic 6.0 had been amazing. I've been stunned by the lack of progress. The major browser companies/projects have largel…

> What is the hold up? Why isn't this happening?

One of the problems, and arguably one of its strengths, with the modern web is that there's no single "entity" that owns everything.

A large part of why this isn't happening is that there are too many parties involved in the web - browser implementers, standards maintainers, and web developers. If you want to introduce a new feature to the web standard, it's not enough to convince one browser implementer to add it - web devs can't use a feature that only one browser supports! You need to convince the standards body to adopt it, and to convince browser implementers (plural) to support it, and this takes a lot of time and coordination effort.

In the case of Visual Basic, you just need to get some PM in Microsoft to add it, and it'll be added.

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