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Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

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Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#101
post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

> cannot afford FAANG salaries

Avoid recruitment channels (like HN!) where FAANG people and FAANG-apirants congregate.

> with lots of FAANG experience

Use FAANG experience as an exclusion filter, not an inclusion filter.

First, as you said, you can't afford the compensation that they're used to.

Second, FAANG companies can absorb tons of bad talent in their hiring process and have mechanisms to both push that talent back out and table it internally once it's known for what it is. There are many awful FAANG engineers. Some of the top performers in the world work for FAANG companies and they're often better at recruiting those people than almost anyone else, but FAANG experience does not identify someone as one of those top performers. It's a really misleading and noisy signal on resumes.

Third, even among talented people who shined in their roles at FAANG, they did so in a radically different work environment than you'll be offering them. The way they spend their days, the pace of deliverables they're calibrated to deliver, the amount of support/independence they need, etc are nothing like what suits your organization. Some may do well (or better) in your startup, but many are not going to be suited to it at all and (if hired into FAANG early) may not even have had the experience to know for themselves.

TLDR; you are not a FAANG company and looking anywhere near FAANG-associated candidates is your problem.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#102
post #82

I remember being a naive college student and hearing about a "software engineer shortage." I was too young and dumb to understand that meant that the owners of companies that needed software engineers wanted cheaper labor and that I was to play a part in the devaluation of engineering labor by helping supply exceed demand, thereby allowing company owners to commodify software labor to ultimately pay wages proportiona…

I was a contractor for a large financial institution -- one you've heard of. They fired a number of their employees during a layoff a year before my contract ended. They did it, not because I was cheaper (my contract certainly wasn't) but because they could get rid of the bottom 15%. And company rules limited my contractual ability to remain on. I was kinda shocked at this. "Why wouldn't you keep the people you hired…

Perhaps what causes this is managers who want to level up usually do so by commanding ever larger groups of people. And when they hire for that scenario they don't really care what kind of people they hire.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#103

There's something to this. I’m a senior dev in NYC with ~7 years experience working across the stack (NextJS/ReactJS, Node, Python, Postgres, SQL Server, etc). I’m also not half bad at design. I haven’t been able to get a response much less an interview.

In no other professional field is someone with 7 years of experience considered “senior” anything. Edit to clarify my meaning: I’m not trying to come at you, just pointing out that this seems to be symptomatic of the problem as a whole.

The term 'senior' is completely meaningless. I've seen people get a senior role ~1.5 years after graduating bootcamp.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#104

Market is the worst it has ever been, at least in the last 10 years but even before because now supply significantly outnumbers demand. Most people on LinkedIn have a green badge. The economy is doomed. Keep rising interest rates to the sky.

How long have you been in the software market? 2008 was terrible and dot com for a while was also a death knell. If anything the last 15 years have been absolutely amazing for working in software

yeah - its hard to remember how many people out there haven't seen a 'down' market before. 2008 was literally 16 years ago...

Anyway, I'll take today's economy over the dot com bust, the early 2000 off-shoring craze, and 2008 recession..

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#105
post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

I would be glad to apply and can do some decent Golang backend work for a much more reasonable $$. How would I do it?

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#106
post #66

I am actively looking to hire - either freelance or full-time - an engineer to write open source golang code for my YC startup. However, I literally cannot afford FAANG salaries at my stage. It would literally bring my runway from n to n/5 years. And many candidates are asking for 400k+ salaries. I’d love to hire someone who knows what they’re doing but I’m just not able to find people who are both qualified and inte…

> I had one person today - with lots of FAANG experience who’d recently gone freelance - tell me that they weren’t willing to work with me to write code but they were willing to do advising for $450/hr. We just weren’t on the same page.

I don't know. If you're not hiring them full time, it might be a bargain, and save you a bunch of money. Particularly if you're trying to architect services from the ground up.

Some people are "force multipliers". In that the work they do can save 10x the engineering time. Dennis Ritchie was maybe a 1B force multiplier.

I was paid $100k/year about a decade ago and saved the company I worked for $4M.

In short, you don't know what you don't know. How much is it worth for you to find out?

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#107

There's something to this. I’m a senior dev in NYC with ~7 years experience working across the stack (NextJS/ReactJS, Node, Python, Postgres, SQL Server, etc). I’m also not half bad at design. I haven’t been able to get a response much less an interview.

In no other professional field is someone with 7 years of experience considered “senior” anything. Edit to clarify my meaning: I’m not trying to come at you, just pointing out that this seems to be symptomatic of the problem as a whole.

I'll disagree. The last 20 years I've been a DBA/DA/dev at a slew of medium/large/ultragiant mining/construction/engineering companies. In almost every single one, there's a young gun quietly operating somewhere there, the equivalent of a 10x developer, a "Senior Engineer" in their mid-20's.

Sure, they're the exception, but with enough numbers you'll always find exceptions.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#108
post #65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're first question should be, "How much are you willing to pay?". And if they dodge it, it's not a good sign. Edited to add: Sure, be polite, but don't be trapped into 8/16/24 hours of interviewing over the course of a week/month/months before only to get a below average offer

My first question is usually "Hey, how are you? Good to meet you." Politeness usually leads the way.

This is a perfect response, well done good sir. Stay classy

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#109
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a contractor for a large financial institution -- one you've heard of. They fired a number of their employees during a layoff a year before my contract ended. They did it, not because I was cheaper (my contract certainly wasn't) but because they could get rid of the bottom 15%. And company rules limited my contractual ability to remain on. I was kinda shocked at this. "Why wouldn't you keep the people you hired…

Perhaps what causes this is managers who want to level up usually do so by commanding ever larger groups of people. And when they hire for that scenario they don't really care what kind of people they hire.

Those are "castle builders". But I've also seen people hire bad people to be tossed to the curb for an upcoming 5% across the board layoff.

Re: Experienced engineers are struggling to get hired

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no other professional field is someone with 7 years of experience considered “senior” anything. Edit to clarify my meaning: I’m not trying to come at you, just pointing out that this seems to be symptomatic of the problem as a whole.

I'll disagree. The last 20 years I've been a DBA/DA/dev at a slew of medium/large/ultragiant mining/construction/engineering companies. In almost every single one, there's a young gun quietly operating somewhere there, the equivalent of a 10x developer, a "Senior Engineer" in their mid-20's. Sure, they're the exception, but with enough numbers you'll always find exceptions.

I appreciate you sharing this! But to be fair, those exceptions are presumably granted with some honor for proven work.

Titles were never normalized in the software industry because we've resisted licensure -- so organizations freely make up their own, rotate them, inflate them and workers don't complain so long as it sounds no less cool/marketable than their last one.

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