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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#511
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bad argument because western platforms are free to compete fairly in PRC market, provided they follow PRC laws like EVERY OTHER PRC PLATFORM. Facebook/Twitter only got banned after 2009 minority riots for abetting terrorism and not cracking down on posts calling for mutual retaliatory violence. It's more accurate to say most major western platforms at the time was simply incapable of of moderating PRC conten…

> That's a bad argument because western platforms are free to compete fairly in PRC market, provided they follow PRC laws like EVERY OTHER PRC PLATFORM. Dude, Chinese national living in China here. I have 3 different vpns from 3 different vendors, that is how I manage to get here and talk to you. Care to shed some light on why they restrict my free & open access to the Internet that I dedicated my entire life to buil…

>shed some light

Digital sovereignty, it's not complicated. Every country who can be in charge of their domestic information ecosystem, should. If US wants embrace PRC model of a controlled media ecosystem where tiktok / US media platforms to ban non-US aligned content from adversary sources, Tiktok would be happy to oblige and scale moderation/compliance costs accordingly. If anything they'd be at competitive advantage being able to draw from douyin experiences in PRC.

You're good example, you're still posting here, via VPN. The friction between PRC info and western eco is VPN costs - it's cheap/trivially accessible for those who need it. People reverse VPN to access geofenced PRC content in the west. People jump region blocking to access geofenced media on western streaming platforms? VPN are everywhere for those who care.

As for why, there was stanford study a few years ago trying to measure PRC propaganda on western platforms only to find they were crowded out by western antiPRC propaganda, including likes of FLG. PRC doesn't want free mixture of foreign propaganda. Constitutionally, the US shouldn't care about reverse. But here we are with TikTok ban. IMO Some ideological / info ecosystems shouldn't naturally mix. See west crack down on RU media post war. Which is fine (for me), as long as there's methods for motivated people to cross the gap.

Regardless, this isn't about free access to information, it's about operating a business in different regions by following relevant regulations. The original argument is whining about why US platforms shouldn't follow PRC law and pay similar compliance costs as domestic competitors, and somehow think that's unfair.

>wouldn't call those angry & brainwashed Tibetans "terrorists"

Neither did I. I said abetting terrorists, and terroism/radicalism foreign influences, that exploded from abroad when these restive regions got connected to global info networks after 90s, including radical seperatist movements. Hence entire regions got caught up in crack down. Including innocents, but cracking down on minorities representing 1% of population responsible for hundreds of terror events that spread out to other provinces is just sensible political policy. Heavy handed, but politically sensible, considering terrorism stopped.

The real issue beyond terrorisms is symptom of aforementioned increase in seperatisms due to PRC's "generous" ethnic oblast policy that "allowed" these frontier regions to keep their cultures and not sinicize / smoothly integrate into broader PRC society. They were never "properly colonized", because frankly PRC was too poor to heavily assert influence on frontiers without expensive infra, now they can, and are against Tibetan/Uyghur will. Of course the oppressed are mad, rebelling, justifiably. But frankly it's politically absurd that their primary language isn't Mandarin, like every repressed minority speaks dominant local language in the west, who virtue signals how bad cultural genocide is while benefitting from it because basic language integration is essential domestic serenity/stability/security. There's no melting pot if some groups of people don't don't melt into the pot.

>they still got shutdown

Most of my PRC interest forums / BBS (milwatching) got shut down last few years because crackdown on discussion of PLA related subjects due to national security. Community goes abroad, on twitter, on telegram, get a VPN. Again, that's the compromise, it's annoying, but it works. I know people who got invited to drink tea, had wechat accounts banned and reinstated after promising to behave. Which is a hell lot more than I can say about people I know who got banned on western platforms and had not avenue to appeal. Communities everywhere get dismantled all the time. You find where it reconsolidates and move on. Just like people moved on from Vine, and likely, TikTok.

>very good personal relationship

Yes Gates know how to play the game and follow the rules. It's not scary, it's business.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#512

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

I don't think we should "lowest common denominator" to oppressive regimes. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." TikTok, at the end of the day, is just a kind of…

I don't think the founders could account for international influence in the age of the Internet and smart phones.

No one is asking for a great wall around the US. People are just asking that major influencers are not under the control of hostile governments.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#513
post #23

I'm a big proponent of free speech and the first amendment, but I agree with the reasonings for banning it or forcing US owners. China most definitely has their hands in the data that TikTok amasses and given its popularity it's not an insignificant risk to U.S. citizens. We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. It'll be interesting to see what legal challenges come up if the bill pa…

Why shouldn’t Europeans do the same with US social networks then?

They should and I wish they would!

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#514
I'm really hoping that the Senate acts responsibly and pushes this no-nonsense bill through. I think it's a step in the right direction for cutting off access to information about USA citizens by foreign advesaries. This is an important step in bringing it to the forefront of Americans minds how important privacy is. Hopefully such a shift will next lead to concern against Facebook, Instagram, X, etc. who are also running a vast information network to monetize the personal lives of Americans for anyone with enough $$. NA-GPDR here we come. I would love nothing more than to see the bankruptcy of companies like LexisNexis and Verisk.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#516

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

It's a huge mistake to not put reciprocity in the title of the bill and to make the language not china specific.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#517
Does Congress have any idea how software works? Anyone could just sideload the app directly from the web. Or you could create wrapper apps around it. Once installed, can Apple or Google steal it off your phone? If so, don't buy their products (or by a Pixel and install grapheneos).

This entire charade is ludicrous.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Western people are generally not dumb, are patriotic and think rationally, they won't believe foreign propaganda, and so there is no need to ban TikTok, right?

> think rationally Not teenagers, TikTok's main target

Thankfully parents were invented to regulate them.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#519
post #307

Ignoring everything else TikTok screwed up. They’re m being accused of having the ability to manipulate public opinion and elections. So what did they do? Push alerts to millions of users telling them of a possible ban and helping them call their representatives to change a political issue’s fortunes. Oops. All of a sudden a ton of representatives who were on the fence jumped off and joined the bandwagon.

How is it a mistake for TikTok to ask Americans to participate in their representative democracy? Do we not remember when Google and Facebook blacked out their sites to stop SOPA from passing, how is TikTok's notification any different?

The whole reason this is even happening is because they've been caught pushing political content that is blatantly either pro-China or meant to stir shit up in the American population. The irony with your comment is that TikTok's masters in China already have the same power that SOPA was supposed to grant the US government. In other words the USA is trying to strip the CCP of that power.

They could've played ball and not pushed politics and we'd have left them alone to make their money but instead they tried to bite the hand that feeds.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#520
post #449

I'm seeing a lot of "censorship is bad" propaganda coming from the shills. This resonates with liberal minded people who are against censorship. Now, that's not to say that most people here are shills or wrong for being against censorship. However they are unwittingly being coopted just as anti-racists were when China deflected any responsibility for a lab leak.

The way the US had dealt with issues like this is in the courts of law through an evidentiary process, not by political decree, which will get slammed down in the courts anyway. Show that TikTok causes active harm compared to FB/Twitter, put that on the public record, and clear the obstacles for a bill to ban.

>The way the US had dealt with issues like this is in the courts of law

How would that work in the case of TikTok. If for example the US Department of Justice were to sue TikTok, what law or regulation would it allege TikTok to have violated?

>the US had dealt with issues like this

This suggests that there were law suits in the past. Who were the plaintiffs and the defendants? What law were the defendants alleged to be in violation of?

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