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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#251

Post by simonsarris »

itishappy wrote: post #170
Manuel_D wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is the fact that China does not let American social media in its market. Why should America give China access to it's markets when that's not reciprocated?

Americans claim to value open access to information. We could go even further and implement a copy of the great firewall of China, but should we?

Americans have more than one value at a time. Americans also claim to value fairness, and they conduct trade with all kinds of people. If some of those people fail to conduct trade fairly, Americans do not need to oblige those failures.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#252

Post by johnbellone »

hobbitstan wrote: post #135

[flagged]

I don't know the dots you're trying to connect here, but there's little monetary support from Congress for Israel nowadays. Although, in my opinion, that's more to do with partisan politics than anything.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#253

Post by AlexandrB »

bushbaba wrote: post #164

[flagged]

The New York Times was used by a nation state to convince a meaningful portion of American voters that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The resulting war cost the US taxpayers trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, not to mention the cost to Iraqi civilians.

Seems like that's a far more meaningful impact than whatever is happening on TikTok.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#254

Post by wannacboatmovie »

codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

> We can make similar arguments

Hey remember when Apple, Google & Amazon all colluded to ban Parler off the face of the planet within days, a purely political move, based on some shaky allegations of moderation?

Meanwhile TikTok is labelled as a "must have" app in the AppStore....

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#255

Post by angio »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #152
2four2 wrote: post #9

As much as I don't care about tiktok going away, and acknowledge the privacy and security risks, there's something about banning a highly popular website that doesn't sit right with me. Is there precedent in the USA for anything like this?

China bans a shitton of Western websites. What's wrong with reciprocating? Free trade should go both ways, shouldn't it? I would definitely be more okay with allowing Chinese websites/apps in the US if China wasn't banning so many Western ones: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

Why would you want to live in a country that bans apps like dictatorships do? I'd rather live in a free country.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#256

Post by thomastjeffery »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
organsnyder wrote: post #2

It's amazing the lengths we'll go in the United States to avoid passing a comprehensive national privacy protections law.

> to avoid passing a comprehensive national privacy protections law It’s unclear there is support for that. I’ve worked on privacy issues. Virtually nobody calls in support of them. This, on the other hand, is a national security bill. Every elected I know is being inundated from both sides.

Privacy is not an engaging issue. It isn't controversial to most people.

The problem is that our first-past-the-post voting system naturally prioritizes engagement over everything else. That's why our elections are always about controversy, and never about progress.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#257

Post by spacecadet »

throwaway237289 wrote: post #19

Don't be fooled by talk about security or privacy. This is simple Nation State realpolitik. TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US. Any other way to look at this is naive.

[flagged]

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#258

Post by RyEgswuCsn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49
Nesco wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn’t Europeans do the same with US social networks then?

> Why shouldn’t Europeans do the same with US social networks then? We’re not your foreign adversary? (If we are, we shouldn’t have an obligation to defend you.) This bill permits TikTok’s sale to a European owner. It just bans its ownership by a foreign adversary country.

Gangs also offer to "defend" local businesses from other gangs.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#259

Post by kyleamazza »

grecy wrote: post #195
TulliusCicero wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China bans a shitton of Western websites. What's wrong with reciprocating? Free trade should go both ways, shouldn't it? I would definitely be more okay with allowing Chinese websites/apps in the US if China wasn't banning so many Western ones: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

I think that is a slippery slope race to the bottom of morals/ideals. Pretty soon you have "China doesn't let people say bad things about their leader, neither should we" and "China uses force to take things from other countries, why shouldn't we" Your ideals and morals should be strong enough they don't change based on a bad actor.

I think you totally missed the argument: it's not about copying anything China does, it's about reciprocating restrictions that they place on your country. If China places a tariff on US imported goods, then the US places a tariff on Chinese goods.

This is and has been the case even for non-adversary countries, and is bread-and-butter foreign policy

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