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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#241

Post by TulliusCicero »

grecy wrote: post #195
TulliusCicero wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China bans a shitton of Western websites. What's wrong with reciprocating? Free trade should go both ways, shouldn't it? I would definitely be more okay with allowing Chinese websites/apps in the US if China wasn't banning so many Western ones: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

I think that is a slippery slope race to the bottom of morals/ideals. Pretty soon you have "China doesn't let people say bad things about their leader, neither should we" and "China uses force to take things from other countries, why shouldn't we" Your ideals and morals should be strong enough they don't change based on a bad actor.

Ridiculous comparison when we're literally talking about trade with that country. Reciprocal free trade is the principle.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#242

Post by JumpCrisscross »

drexlspivey wrote: post #184
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would give the president the authority to ban any app or website both foreign and domestic based No, it has to be controlled by a foreign adversary country [1]. The broadest power is in 3(a)(ii) on page 10, which lets the President designate an app as a foreign adversary controlled application if it is a significant national security threat following public notice and reporting requirements. But even then, it’s a d…

What is a foreign adversary? Is there a set list of countries or is it open for interpretation?

> Is there a set list of countries

Yes [1].

[1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-15/subtitle-A/part-7/subp...

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#243

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bluefishinit wrote: post #240
ThisIsMyAltAcct wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

This level of censorship isn't good, it's very bad. It's also concerning the speed at which the government mobilized to do this. It's a rapid crackdown on free speech and individual freedom.

> censorship

Nothing is being censored. If ByteDance refuses to sell, TikTok will be removed from App Stores and have to find new web hosting. TikTok.com will still resolve fine.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#244

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #224
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, every person I talk to thinks it's crazy that the US is this close to banning an app because it doesn't like the content. The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself...

It's a different world than the one where our ideas of freedom were born in. Used to be we were talking about somebody on a soapbox in a park. Now, it's a firehose of misinformation spread instantly to hundreds of millions. A tidal wave. A hurricane. What should we do? How do we put the genie back in the bottle?

[deleted]

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#245

Post by rightbyte »

catskul2 wrote: post #206
basisword wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...what 'intelligence' would they be gathering though? What actionable intelligence could be cleaned from someones TikTok viewing habits?

Can you really not imagine how a nation state could get valuable intelligence by having an intimate knowledge of how a large portion of another nation states population is thinking?

You can like ask people in the street? Oracle runs TikTok anyway in the US, right?

The danger with TikTok is inherent to all these algorithmic feeds. It is like, bad for you. People get mentally ill from them.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#246

Post by lagichikool »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #223
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

>If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete fairly in their digital ecosystem, why the hell should we continue to grant Chinese firms unrestricted access to our market? Because we are (used to be?) a country that believes in democracy and the will of our citizens. If people want to download a Chinese app and watch straight up Chinese news and propaganda (not even close to what TikTok actually is), they sh…

I'd wager that most Americans want fairness in relationships with other countries. And also want the government to protect them against hostile foreign governments that wish to do them harm.

Americans subject themselves to all kinds of restrictions in terms of what can be imported into the US. There's no contradiction of the freedoms protected by US Constitution in this.

There's certainly no information that Americans need deny themselves by insisting that apps like TikTok are not controlled by hostile foreign governments.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#249

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #205
TulliusCicero wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free trade should go both ways. It's ridiculous to let Chinese apps and websites operate in the West when China blocks so many Western sites and apps: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

Free trade generally does not mean you have to let foreign companies operating in your country do things that domestic companies are not allowed to do. Most of those sites are not in China not because China says that they cannot operate there but rather because China say they would have to obey the same rules Chines companies do. That generally involves things like storing data on Chinese citizens only on servers in…

[deleted]

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#250

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #243
bluefishinit wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This level of censorship isn't good, it's very bad. It's also concerning the speed at which the government mobilized to do this. It's a rapid crackdown on free speech and individual freedom.

> censorship Nothing is being censored. If ByteDance refuses to sell, TikTok will be removed from App Stores and have to find new web hosting. TikTok.com will still resolve fine.

> Nothing is being censored. If ByteDance refuses to sell, TikTok will be removed from App Stores

What if Google says no?

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