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House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

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Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#221

Post by ffsm8 »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #131
throwaway237289 wrote: post #19

Don't be fooled by talk about security or privacy. This is simple Nation State realpolitik. TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US. Any other way to look at this is naive.

Is there any evidence it's been used for propaganda? I don't use TikTok a lot, but it seems very non-political (maybe it's my filter bubble). The real cesspool of hatred and madness is Facebook - but of course Congress doesn't care too much about that. As far as I remember from the previous elections the Russian bots were operating on US based platforms

Uuuh, yes?

If your populist parties aren't on it, they're incompetent.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#222

Post by hawthornio »

chzblck wrote: post #14

Is there anyone who is actually upset about this?

Yes, this is a bullshit distraction issue. Our congresspeople should be focused on other things, e.g., stopping the genocide of Palestinians, protecting LGBTQ/trans rights, reducing the cost of living for average americans.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#223

Post by aprilthird2021 »

codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

>If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete fairly in their digital ecosystem, why the hell should we continue to grant Chinese firms unrestricted access to our market?

Because we are (used to be?) a country that believes in democracy and the will of our citizens. If people want to download a Chinese app and watch straight up Chinese news and propaganda (not even close to what TikTok actually is), they should be allowed to do so. That's the entire idea of the First Amendment...

Does that put us at a disadvantage to countries who don't have the same rules? Maybe. But that ideal and that principle is valuable and means something and IS the entire bedrock of American influence over the greater world.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#224

Post by JoeAltmaier »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #210
basisword wrote: post #143

I'm interested to see how this plays out. TikTok is popular enough that I can imagine it's making enough money outside the US to just let them ban it and not sell. The whole thing is interesting to watch from a non-China/US perspective. It feels like a move to make the US government look strong to its citizens. A move that, unusually, can have bipartisan support. It feels like propaganda really. And judging by the co…

Idk, every person I talk to thinks it's crazy that the US is this close to banning an app because it doesn't like the content. The idea that Americans aren't allowed to view "propaganda" is insane and very against the ideas of free speech. But I come online and there's so much support for banning an app who hires lots of devs in Silicon Valley itself...

It's a different world than the one where our ideas of freedom were born in.

Used to be we were talking about somebody on a soapbox in a park.

Now, it's a firehose of misinformation spread instantly to hundreds of millions. A tidal wave. A hurricane.

What should we do? How do we put the genie back in the bottle?

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#225

Post by Manuel_D »

est wrote: post #203
Manuel_D wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But ByteDance, TikTok's owner, operates it's own analogous app in China, Douyin

Which means Tiktok was banned.

TikTok is Douyin with a different coat of paint. They're near identical apps run by the same company, ByteDance. It's not banned in China, it just has a different name.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#226

Post by basisword »

rusty_venture wrote: post #199
basisword wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> China literally has a nationwide firewall to prevent Western ideas from entering the minds of its subjects. Why should we throw open our digital borders to Chinese influence campaigns? Emulating the policies of a country 'we' think 'is bad' isn't great policy. >> undermine Americans' faith in our democratic institutions It seems like Americans did a pretty good job of this themselves at the last election cycle. A…

>> Emulating the policies of a country 'we' think 'is bad' isn't great policy. The paradox of tolerance. >> A highly politicised Supreme Court, a violent attack on the Capitol, a lot of people who don't accept or believe the election result. 2 out of 3 of these were precipitated by foreign influence campaigns on social media actively undermining Americans' trust in our political institutions, so yeah, prohibiting for…

>> 2 out of 3 of these were precipitated by foreign influence campaigns on social media actively undermining Americans' trust in our political institutions

Why is nothing being done about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Truth Social, etc. etc? There are more users on Facebook alone.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#227

Post by aprilthird2021 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #201
itishappy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans claim to value open access to information. We could go even further and implement a copy of the great firewall of China, but should we?

> open access to information Nobody proposed blocking TikTok.com. It’s just limiting its distribution.

So, all 160 million US TikTok users install a PWA of TikTok and everything is fine then? I highly doubt it

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#228

Post by ThisIsMyAltAcct »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #223
codekaze wrote: post #213

I think the primary argument for banning TikTok should be based on reciprocity rather than moral and/or security concerns. We can make similar arguments about the negative effects of Facebook, Instagram, and etc. even from the POVs of other countries, but the key issue here is that China heavily restricts foreign apps and services from operating in their market. If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete…

>If China is unwilling to allow US companies to compete fairly in their digital ecosystem, why the hell should we continue to grant Chinese firms unrestricted access to our market? Because we are (used to be?) a country that believes in democracy and the will of our citizens. If people want to download a Chinese app and watch straight up Chinese news and propaganda (not even close to what TikTok actually is), they sh…

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#229

Post by RobotToaster »

Manuel_D wrote: post #186
RobotToaster wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false, American social media simply refused to follow Chinese law. (I believe facebook specifically refused to remove accounts belonging to ETIM/TIP, an organisation recognised by the UN, EU and at the time the USA as a terrorist group)

Incorrect, Facebook is flat out banned in China no matter whether they comply with CCP censorship. I'm very interested in sources to substantiate the claim that Facebook is refusing to ban groups that even the US designates as terrorists.

Here's at least one source http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/kindle/2014-10/02/content_18692... Although I appear to be wrong that it was specifically what caused the block.

I'd be interested to know the source of your claim that facebook wouldn't be allowed if it complied fully with Chinese law?

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