Live data from Hacker News

House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

nytimes.com

101–110 of 1001 posts

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#101
post #71

I'm a big proponent of free speech and the first amendment, but I agree with the reasonings for banning it or forcing US owners. China most definitely has their hands in the data that TikTok amasses and given its popularity it's not an insignificant risk to U.S. citizens. We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. It'll be interesting to see what legal challenges come up if the bill pa…

> We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. There is little to no evidence that CA was able to manipulate anyone other than gullible campaign managers. And frankly the idea that a list of pages someone liked could be used to create a skeleton key that turned people into Republican voters is... far-fetched. Similarly, I haven't seen anyone actually articulate what the risk from TikTok…

> Similarly, I haven't seen anyone actually articulate what the risk from TikTok is.

Profiling of a large population, you put them in cohorts, and slowly shift what you show to these cohorts (based on their preferences, worldviews, etc.) to slowly nudge them into a worldview you'd like. It won't be 100% effective but it can definitely shift perceptions, if each cohort is siloed into their own reality bubbles through what you show them you can stochastically nudge them into a view you want them to hold based on their preferences.

If marketing works even to the people aware of how it works, a concerted effort to use someone's profiling data telling what do they like, dislike, will definitely work on a majority of users.

It's not like it will be blunt, it only has potential if you use this data to slowly shift views by using what's most effective to each cohort, with a large amount of data you can be quite precise in defining these cohorts and using different strategies/tactics for each one depending on what's most effective.

Have you ever worked on anything that did profiling based on accumulated data? I've worked on a few projects back in the early 2010s and even at the time it was scary how much you could infer about your users based on some 100-200 data points collected over a period of 2-5 years. Weaponising that is not the complicated part, the data collection is.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#102
post #50

Why can't ByteDance just dodge this with a US IPO of a local operating company with dual-class structure?

> Why can't ByteDance just dodge this with a US IPO of a local operating company with dual-class structure?

If they sell 80% of the shares (and voting power), sure. That would require either the largest IPO in history and/or massive valuation cuts.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#103
post #71

I'm a big proponent of free speech and the first amendment, but I agree with the reasonings for banning it or forcing US owners. China most definitely has their hands in the data that TikTok amasses and given its popularity it's not an insignificant risk to U.S. citizens. We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. It'll be interesting to see what legal challenges come up if the bill pa…

> We all know how easy it is to manipulate users... aka Cambridge Analytica. There is little to no evidence that CA was able to manipulate anyone other than gullible campaign managers. And frankly the idea that a list of pages someone liked could be used to create a skeleton key that turned people into Republican voters is... far-fetched. Similarly, I haven't seen anyone actually articulate what the risk from TikTok…

Yes, it’s cable news. But US has restrictions on foreign owned news.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#104
To be clear, TikTok's main threat is persuasion and opinion manipulation. Data privacy is a nice thing to talk about, but pales in comparison to being able to influence what a huge portion of a foreign adversary population is watching.

Edit to counter likely responses: this also applies directly to US social media and mainstream media and I have extremely dim views of both I can assure you :-)

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#105
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) wouldn't blame them if they did 2) we are in this military alliance called NATO; if you are depending on each other for military help, you're not thinking about social media based threats

[flagged]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#106

I will laugh when they will sell to a newly founded Hungarian company - EU state, but anti-west, and China's biggest ally in the region.

> laugh when they will sell to a newly founded Hungarian company

Honestly, I’d be fine with that. (And I think it would stand.)

Punts the problem to Brussels, whom I trust far more than Beijing.

Re: House passes bill to force TikTok sale from Chinese owner or ban the app

#109

Don't be fooled by talk about security or privacy. This is simple Nation State realpolitik. TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US. Any other way to look at this is naive.

> TikTok is a propaganda threat controlled by a non-friendly state to the US

Yes. Would you have been offended when during the Revolutionary War we restricted British propaganda? German and Nazi propaganda in the World Wars? Soviet propaganda in the Cold War?

Let’s reverse the roles. How thrilled would we be if we could have had a propaganda arm active and accepted in Nazi Germany or the CCCP? If we had person-by-person profiles of interests and affiliations for every person in Russia or Iran?

Post reply on HN