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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#261

Post by saberience »

wodenokoto wrote: post #248
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

> The people with the least amount of money end up having to move to apartments near highways In Dubai prime real estate is along the major highway Sheik Zayed Road. It’s funny how these things can be cultural.

As someone that lives in Dubai, this isn’t accurate. No one wants to live right by Sheik Zayed road. People want to live by the sea on the Palm for example, JBR, or perhaps in the Marina area.

Driving up SZ road, all you see are tons of shitty retailers and car dealerships. Trust me, wealthy people especially are not living next to it.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#262

Post by helsinkiandrew »

yreg wrote: post #258
hacker_88 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV use of Magnetic Braking reduce brake wear by alot . With One pedal driving in city not using brakes at all

I almost never use breaks. It is a game for me, so I'm conscious of any time I have to use them. On the other hand, EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass).

> EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass).

I wonder how much the higher torque of EVs is a real issue? Although they have the potential to do more aggressive acceleration and produce more tyre pollution, the Teslas I see leaving traffic stops seem to be accelerating the same as ICEs.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#263

Post by [deleted] »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #37
jordanbeiber wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you rarely have to brake an EV though. I’ve had two EV’s over the last 6 years, and I have to remember to occasionally hit the brakes to keep them from rusting. One pedal driving is just money - saves power and is just much smoother over all than old school breaking. IMO.

I've never driven an EV. How do you approach stop signs and red lights other than braking? Is "engine braking" (regenerative braking?) strong enough to handle that big a fraction of slowing down in city traffic?

[deleted]

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#264

Post by wodenokoto »

saberience wrote: post #261
wodenokoto wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people with the least amount of money end up having to move to apartments near highways In Dubai prime real estate is along the major highway Sheik Zayed Road. It’s funny how these things can be cultural.

As someone that lives in Dubai, this isn’t accurate. No one wants to live right by Sheik Zayed road. People want to live by the sea on the Palm for example, JBR, or perhaps in the Marina area. Driving up SZ road, all you see are tons of shitty retailers and car dealerships. Trust me, wealthy people especially are not living next to it.

Please take a look at the high-rise along sheik zayed in business bay, around down town and World Trade Center and explain to me how those are low end living. It’s all 4 and 5 star hotels with significant portions dedicated to long term (yearly) contracts.

It’s only Al Quoz that is car dealerships. But on both sides of Al Quoz you find high-end, high rise

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#265

Post by za3faran »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #262
yreg wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost never use breaks. It is a game for me, so I'm conscious of any time I have to use them. On the other hand, EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass).

> EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass). I wonder how much the higher torque of EVs is a real issue? Although they have the potential to do more aggressive acceleration and produce more tyre pollution, the Teslas I see leaving traffic stops seem to be accelerating the same as ICEs.

EVs also tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#266

Post by audunw »

yreg wrote: post #258
hacker_88 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV use of Magnetic Braking reduce brake wear by alot . With One pedal driving in city not using brakes at all

I almost never use breaks. It is a game for me, so I'm conscious of any time I have to use them. On the other hand, EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass).

Do you have hard numbers on the tire particle claim?

We have anecdotes of Tesla owners saying they go through tires more often. But I’ve also heard car fleet owners with both EVs and ICE saying they see no difference between them.

So I’m inclined to think this is entirely dependent on the specific EV. You can get an EV without significantly more weight than an equivalent ICE, and you can drive them in ECO mode where the torque curve is extremely gentle. I don’t see any reason why you’d have more tire particles in that scenario.

I think there are pathways to have less tire wear on EVs than with today’s ICE vehicles. Batteries with higher energy density would obviously help, but I think there are things you could do with the accurate control you have over the torque on the wheels, or making true all wheel drive with torque vectoring more common.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#267

Post by jameshart »

k8sToGo wrote: post #221
jameshart wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The control scheme has nothing to do with the efficiency of the car. Whether one pedal or two, it’s going to use the same power for the same acceleration/cruise/deceleration profile. Unless you’re concerned about the energy usage in your ankle when maintaining pressure on the gas with your foot?

It has to do with that your feet or legs are not super accurate machines that can keep the pedal at 0 regen and 0 acceleration for long enough time.

Controlling the car’s speed is the driver’s primary job. One pedal or two you need to use your right foot to maintain the speed you want.

Coasting with no acceleration or deceleration except that provided by rolling resistance and the road gradient is so unlikely to be the exact acceleration you actually want - there’s no particular value in privileging ‘zero motor power’ as needing to be an easy state to achieve.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#268

Post by blagie »

HPsquared wrote: post #252
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

I've seen adverts for Chinese luxury apartments touting the built-in HEPA filtration systems. Seems to be a must-have if the air outside is polluted. Nobody seems to even think about this in building codes in the West. Especially, as you say, for apartments near major roads.

Filtration is a very good idea. HEPA filtration for residential use is dumb.

A HEPA filter must remove at least 99.97% of aerosols 0.3μm in diameter. A filter which removed 99% and blows air 1% faster will remove just as much, or one which removes 50% and blows air twice as fast.

For recirculating air, all of those accomplish the same thing. Some of those have much higher noise, running costs, and general upkeep than others.

HEPA makes 100% sense for something where 100% of air passes through it. If you want an exhaust on a facility which handles biohazards, a vacuum cleaner kicking up dust, etc., sealed HEPA 100% is the way to go.

That's not what happens in a residential building, though. For that application, it's just bad engineering.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#269

Post by helsinkiandrew »

za3faran wrote: post #265
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs unfortunately pollute more with tire particles (thanks to both higher torque - especially from 0 - and higher average mass). I wonder how much the higher torque of EVs is a real issue? Although they have the potential to do more aggressive acceleration and produce more tyre pollution, the Teslas I see leaving traffic stops seem to be accelerating the same as ICEs.

EVs also tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts.

> EVs also tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts.

As the parent comment said - but I was questioning about whether increased torque has an actual impact on tyre wear.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#270

Post by argumentumm »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #269
za3faran wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs also tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts.

> EVs also tend to be heavier than their ICE counterparts. As the parent comment said - but I was questioning about whether increased torque has an actual impact on tyre wear.

Indeed I wonder at “normal” speeds (not racing say) does torque matter or is wear dominated by total miles driven? If I zoom to my destination do my tyres wear substantially more than if I take a more sedate approach?

(Certainly when I was young and dumb my clutch wore more when I went dashing about).

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