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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#221

Post by k8sToGo »

jameshart wrote: post #103
k8sToGo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crusing is much more efficient than one pedal driving. So it does not save power at all.

The control scheme has nothing to do with the efficiency of the car. Whether one pedal or two, it’s going to use the same power for the same acceleration/cruise/deceleration profile. Unless you’re concerned about the energy usage in your ankle when maintaining pressure on the gas with your foot?

It has to do with that your feet or legs are not super accurate machines that can keep the pedal at 0 regen and 0 acceleration for long enough time.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#222

Post by penneyd »

ipqk wrote: post #166
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

And EVs make some problems worse, such as tire dust because they're heavier than an equivalent ICE car.

A model 3 is no heavier than a 3 series.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#223

Post by [deleted] »

ipqk wrote: post #166
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

And EVs make some problems worse, such as tire dust because they're heavier than an equivalent ICE car.

[deleted]

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#224

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Retric wrote: post #171
ipqk wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And EVs make some problems worse, such as tire dust because they're heavier than an equivalent ICE car.

Actually, the opposite is true because they make heavy use of regenerative breaking. What EV’s produce more of is tire particulates due to weight. PS: And now the post says tires.

The same applies to tires though. The driving style EVs encourage (avoid heavy braking to allow regenerative charging) reduces tire wear too.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#225

Post by onion2k »

autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

Electric cars can help with some of the problems but don't solve all of them.

In the case of brake dust specifically, presumably electric cars are worse because they're quite a bit heavier than ICE cars.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#226

Post by mattgrice »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #138
CharlesW wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6203a8.htm "In the United States, it is widely accepted that economically disadvantaged and minority populations share a disproportionate burden of air pollution exposure and risk (26,27). A growing body of evidence demonstrates that minority populations and persons of lower socioeconomic status experience higher residential exposure to traffic and traffic-related air pollu…

It's not surprising that minorities would be exposed to more traffic given the proportion that live in urban areas, but that doesn't rule out that the poorest in the country (minorities and whites) are not the most exposed. I guess my basic question is, are the poorest people still living in city centers? In my city the central, densest areas became some of the wealthiest, the quieter outlying areas the poorest.

In Seattle, in the densest parts of the city are glass towers that certainly have filtered HVAC, and the poorest parts of the city are relatively low-density areas near the port (particulates from diesel trucks and ships), the cement plant, the nucor steel plant, the highly polluted duwamish river, and boeing field.

Density doesn't equal exposure.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#227

Post by carlmr »

onion2k wrote: post #225
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

Electric cars can help with some of the problems but don't solve all of them. In the case of brake dust specifically, presumably electric cars are worse because they're quite a bit heavier than ICE cars.

What you're saying is completely true for tire particulates, but if you drive an electric car normally you're almost never engaging the brakes. Since almost all normal amount of braking is in the envelope of where your regeneration braking can take all of the power.

This counts even for hybrids though. A friend of mine had to replace his brakes after over 10 years and 180,000km on his Prius for the first time. Not because the brake pads were used up, but because the brake rotors started to rust too much from not being used.

Of course if you're one of those people that floor it and hard brake at every stop light, this doesn't work, but for most cars it works really well.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#228

Post by davely »

onion2k wrote: post #225
autoexec wrote: post #124

The problem of "brake dust" on human health and air quality has been known for a long time ( https://phys.org/news/2020-01-air-pollution-effects-immune-c... ) before that there were also issues with asbestos in brakes, but thankfully those haven't been used since the 90s as far as I know. This is the first I'm hearing about electrically charged particles though. The bottom line is that proximity to traffic is horribl…

Electric cars can help with some of the problems but don't solve all of them. In the case of brake dust specifically, presumably electric cars are worse because they're quite a bit heavier than ICE cars.

I don’t think this is a 1:1 comparison though. Electric cars can utilize regenerative braking, which can significantly slow them down before needing to use friction from brake pads in order to stop.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#229

Post by decafninja »

itishappy wrote: post #155
saagarjha wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the place where people park their dream Ferraris next to some rich person’s beat up Honda Civic from the 90s?

Right, and I'm going to park my horse right between them!

I interviewed at a few Silicon Valley campuses in 2017-2019. I was surprised at how…humble the cars in the parking lots were.

Then someone told me the Porsches remain garaged at home until the weekend.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#230

Post by mattgrice »

CharlesW wrote: post #148
jasonfarnon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not surprising that minorities would be exposed to more traffic given the proportion that live in urban areas, but that doesn't rule out that the poorest in the country (minorities and whites) are not the most exposed. I guess my basic question is, are the poorest people still living in city centers? In my city the central, densest areas became some of the wealthiest, the quieter outlying areas the poorest.

> …that doesn't rule out that the poorest in the country (minorities and whites) are not the most exposed. Setting aside race, to me it seems like "economically disadvantaged populations share a disproportionate burden of traffic-related air pollution exposure" makes this pretty clear.

It's not 1950, everyone on this site has a 1+ GFLOP machine so there's no need to squash a bunch of independent variables down to one dimension or as you call it "set aside race." Unless you're not a hacker, that is.

Even into the 1960s wealthy black people were prevented from buying and living in the 'good' parts of even northern US cities.

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