Live data from Hacker News

The internet isn't dying, it's changing

coryd.dev

71–80 of 83 posts

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A decomposing body will be full of active organisms and life too! You could have made the same argument about settler colonialism: No, the culture of the indigenous population isn't being destroyed. How can it be dying when there's more and more people living there?

That's not even remotely the same argument.

[deleted]

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's faster. It's marginally faster than 20 years ago. There's a 10x raw transfer rate speed up, but I've needed that 5 times for less than 30 in the past week. And even then it was 20% of the the max. I don't want 1Gbit/sec of crap. > It's always on. It was always on for me in 2004. > I can host at home, I don't need to host on someone's else server. Which I was doing in 2004. > The web part more secure - most eve…

> I read faster than I can listen to someone That's just a matter of practice. Average reading speed is ~230 WPM, listening speed can easily reach 300 WPM (YMMV of course). Note that speaking speed is ~170 WPM. I'd wager you can easily reach 2-3x on most voiced content after a few weeks of practice. Also note that audio processing is computationally much cheaper than video processing, which I don't think is just a co…

When it takes the speaker 2x more words to ensure they mention their corporate sponsors, it's no longer an efficient way to get information.

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#73

It’s Balkanizing. Every community ends up having a general other chat channel and we’ve made all these small tiny islands for that general chat channel to be in. That’s what we’re losing. The hacker Slack that I’m in the Lisp enthusiasts group, the factorial discord. All those general chats are in their own tiny little islands instead of being in a bigger, wider world. That’s what’s changing. We’ve got these small pr…

I see several converging factors 1) It’s impossible to distinguish between human and AI. Breaking a captcha is a resume building weekend project for any dedicated hacker. 2) The turing test has thoroughly been solved. There’s already a trend of accounts on reddit that reply with helpful but obviously ai generated content to farm reputation. 3) Spam and troll content is still an unsolved problem that requires a dedica…

> 4) Communities themselves can be hostile, especially when the majority adopt black and white thinking.

many of these communities will inevitably fall into that thinking, even when they start out as a more open forum, due to selection bias, us-vs-them / in-group-out-group, and a tendency for more controversial, angry, or loud posts to get more views.

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#74

Dead Internet Theory (2021): https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/dead-internet-... TL;DR Large proportions of the supposedly human-produced content on the internet are actually generated by artificial intelligence networks in conjunction with paid secret media influencers in order to manufacture consumers for an increasing range of newly-normalised cultural products.

The Internet Is A Potemkin Village: Proof Of Dead Internet Theory? Source URL: https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/the-internet-i...

  We should certainly be asking what on earth has happened to the undoubtedly millions of pages of content that people have created over the years about the various aspects of, dangers, and sentiments around climate change. Are they actually there somewhere, in the background, but for some reason inaccessible through Google search? Are they really just gone? We should also be asking: why would Google want everyone to think there are hundreds of millions more results out there than there actually are? In both politics and economics, a Potemkin village is any construction (literal or figurative) whose sole purpose is to provide an external façade to a country which is faring poorly, making people believe that the country is faring better. Is Google Search - the foundational product for a company worth $1682 billion in July 2021 - really just a Potemkin village for either the US as a country, the Internet, or Google itself?
Source URL: https://forum.agoraroad.com/index.php?threads/the-internet-i...

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#75
post #9
post #2

When people say "the internet is dying" (and really, they mean "the web", not "the internet"), they don't mean it will cease to exist. They mean that it's changing in a way that makes it increasingly worse for them. "Dying" is an appropriate analogy because if the decline gets far enough, it may as well not exist to those people who are affected. At least, this is what I mean when I say the web is dying. Most of it i…

When people say the Internet is dying, they typically don't even mean the Web, they mean one site on the Web that matters to them. The article us a rebuttal to [1] where someone is complaining that Reddit is going public. For some reason this strategy, or indeed the need for reddit to earn revenue, seems to be shocking to the author. To anyone with half a brain, and has seen the internet since it was an infant in the…

> It's waaaay better now than it has ever been, and a pale shadow of examples it will become.

I think that depends on what you value. I've been on the internet from well before it was open to the public, and it's absolutely worse for me now than it has ever been. And getting worse every year.

But I say that because it's worse for the purposes I want to use it for. For others who have different purposes, it may very well be better. That doesn't change the fact that it is dying in terms of how well it meets my needs.

These days, the greatest utility I get from the internet is to use it as a dumb pipe between end points.

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other search engines than google. I really have no problem finding what Im looking for except when I use google.

Genuine question - this isn't some "gotcha" sarcastic comment - but what search engines do you use that are an actual improvement? The only one I know is Marginalia, which I love, but is more of a discovery tool for old sites than for actual relevant information.

Kagi is the big one. LLMs are useful for a specific subset of topics and questions. But mostly I do use KAgi

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#77

It’s Balkanizing. Every community ends up having a general other chat channel and we’ve made all these small tiny islands for that general chat channel to be in. That’s what we’re losing. The hacker Slack that I’m in the Lisp enthusiasts group, the factorial discord. All those general chats are in their own tiny little islands instead of being in a bigger, wider world. That’s what’s changing. We’ve got these small pr…

I see several converging factors 1) It’s impossible to distinguish between human and AI. Breaking a captcha is a resume building weekend project for any dedicated hacker. 2) The turing test has thoroughly been solved. There’s already a trend of accounts on reddit that reply with helpful but obviously ai generated content to farm reputation. 3) Spam and troll content is still an unsolved problem that requires a dedica…

And even if I’ve met someone briefly, who’s to say they haven’t wired a bot into slack to speak for them? At what point does it cross the line? I fully admit to using ChatGPT to help organize my thinking, but that seems benign compared to wiring up a bot and have it fully shitposting as me.

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#78

It’s Balkanizing. Every community ends up having a general other chat channel and we’ve made all these small tiny islands for that general chat channel to be in. That’s what we’re losing. The hacker Slack that I’m in the Lisp enthusiasts group, the factorial discord. All those general chats are in their own tiny little islands instead of being in a bigger, wider world. That’s what’s changing. We’ve got these small pr…

I see several converging factors 1) It’s impossible to distinguish between human and AI. Breaking a captcha is a resume building weekend project for any dedicated hacker. 2) The turing test has thoroughly been solved. There’s already a trend of accounts on reddit that reply with helpful but obviously ai generated content to farm reputation. 3) Spam and troll content is still an unsolved problem that requires a dedica…

5) vetting new accounts for some of the more private communities is invite only, so you’ve got to know somebody. Limits the growth but makes sure there are no bots.

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#79
post #55
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide an opposing opinion which might help you understand why you're getting downvoted (though I didn't) - the reason this doesn't ring true to me is that none of your source-of-truth is actually hosted _on_ Cloudflared (they're just a proxy - you still control your own content), and the switching costs are minimal (especially if you're brave enough to raw-dog it on the public Internet without a CDN). That disti…

You're both wrong. Cloudflare is breaking the internet by doing interactive verification of users, meaning the web is no longer an open protocol. I'm referring to that "enable javascript" page and "one more step" page. They require you to have Firefox or Chrome, neither of which are acceptable, which they verify with scripts and deep packet inspection. Contrast this to old school communication protocols which I could…

> I'm referring to that "enable javascript" page and "one more step" page.

Sorry, I have no idea to what you're referring.

But even if that is the case _for sites that are behind Cloudflare CDN_ - that still doesn't invalidate my point that Cloudflare _itself_ does not make the web decentralized. A lot of traffic _happens_ to go through it right now - but if it does "up its policing" in a way which is unacceptable, it is trivial for hosts to migrate away from behind it, in a way which is _not_ the case when 1. your content is irretrievable from the provider, 2. your social network is unmigratable, or 3. your product is built in provider-specific language/tooling.

EDIT: a sibling comment[0] helped me realize that what I'm describing is more like "lock-in-iness" than "centralization". Fair. Though - a "gatekeeper" from whom migration costs are very cheap worries me far less.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39687477

Re: The internet isn't dying, it's changing

#80
post #57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide an opposing opinion which might help you understand why you're getting downvoted (though I didn't) - the reason this doesn't ring true to me is that none of your source-of-truth is actually hosted _on_ Cloudflared (they're just a proxy - you still control your own content), and the switching costs are minimal (especially if you're brave enough to raw-dog it on the public Internet without a CDN). That disti…

I counter with the fact that hosting something means nothing unless connections can be made. Well, unless hosting in itself is your end goal. Even here on HN, there are plenty of comments about how someone can't connect to a website because it uses Cloudflare and Cloudflare decided to block them due to a dirty IP address, shady (read: hyper privacy focused) user agent, CAPTCHAs that don't work (see prior factor), or…

Eh, fair - I think we have differing definitions of centralization, though I can see that yours is actually more accurate. I was using it not to mean "a lot of traffic goes through this thing", but rather "it would be difficult for users of this service to migrate away from it if they wanted to", which I guess is more like "lock-in-iness". The SPOF property you describe is indeed undesirable and important to be aware of!
Post reply on HN