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TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

channel4.com

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Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#11

Post by ZenJosh »

SagelyGuru wrote: post #7
ZenJosh wrote: post #5

I was gearing up for a rant about how this hurts the open internet, but after watching the video, it seems fairly well reasoned. I guess it all pivots around how effective the review panel is at unblocking access to sites that have been miscategorised and how easy it is to enable and disable the filtering.

except you cannot unblock sites you never get to see in the first place, and thus remain ingnorant about their very existence

True, but the option to disable filtering remains with the customer, which is pretty important. And, from what I gather from the video, unblocking is between the content owner and TalkTalk, not the user. That said, it'd be a good idea to build some kind of request portal for users to request a website be unblocked too.

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#12

Post by iamben »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #6

This a terrible move. It's been a long time coming but what surprised me reading the article is that they are also blocking gambling and violent images. So they've already crossed the line. How do they determine what is a violent image? What if I'm reading a news story that includes an image of a crime? Will the filter block me from playing poker games with free 'pretend' chips? The worst part is that the media is br…

It's the start of a very slippery slope. Where is the line drawn?

The irony, of course - it's incredibly easy to find porn on Twitter (and I suspect Facebook) - but they're never going to be blocked.

Parents could, of course, put the children's computer in a communal room...

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#13

Post by SagelyGuru »

ljlolel wrote: post #9
SagelyGuru wrote: post #4

I remember when filters first appeared and UK secondary schools were forced to employ them. The filters work(ed) by filtering out anything on the www that contains so called offensive words, such as sex in particular. Following this, the universities of Essex and Sussex suffered a mysterious but nevertheless catastrophic drop in applications, as their websites became invisible to secondary school applicants and nobod…

[citation needed]

I don't cite anyone because I myself was doing the admissions at Essex at the time and I saw the figures and I had put 1+1 together. However, it is difficult to quantify how many didn't apply because of what they had not seen and so my colleagues preferred to bury their heads in the sand about this. One also gets the feeling that people are getting afraid to speak up against such 'morally and politically correct measures'.

More generally, it is hard to prove that/how someone didn't achieve something important because censorship denied them the crucial information. It is a very real negative effect nevertheless that was clearly demonstrated by the gradual stagnation of the Soviet Block and should not need repeating. This is precisely why censorship is a lot more pernicious than most people seem to realise.

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#14

Post by jlgreco »

ZenJosh wrote: post #11
SagelyGuru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except you cannot unblock sites you never get to see in the first place, and thus remain ingnorant about their very existence

True, but the option to disable filtering remains with the customer, which is pretty important. And, from what I gather from the video, unblocking is between the content owner and TalkTalk, not the user. That said, it'd be a good idea to build some kind of request portal for users to request a website be unblocked too.

The option to enable filtering should be with the customer. I can not see any rational argument for any other system.

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#15

Post by casca »

These is completely a political move. The history of this is that for many years, the UK ISPs told the Government that implementing filters was too difficult and expensive. Last year TalkTalk broke ranks and launched their HuaweiSymantec-based filtering product for all their customers for free. Since then, they've been very cozy with the 2 main MPs who've been pushing this, Claire Perry and Lynne Featherstone. These MPs wanted "Active Choice" whereby everyone should decide on sign-up whether they wanted automatic porn filters.

At some point, they decided that most people do not change often enough so would not be forced to make this Active Choice. TalkTalk again leap to the rescue by making all current customers do it.

So this is completely a political move to keep ahead of the other ISPs and on the best side of the Government and media.

For those who are a little interested in how good the TalkTalk filter is - it's terrible. They only block HTTP so bypassing is as easy as adding an "s" into your URL bar. Also, they don't block any VPNs or other proxies.

To make it even more useless, it doesn't even block a lot of the HTTP versions of some major porn sites. Reddit NSFW section is one example.

TL;DR: Talktalk are riding a political wave. Their product sucks.

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#17

Post by webmonkeyuk »

ljlolel wrote: post #9
SagelyGuru wrote: post #4

I remember when filters first appeared and UK secondary schools were forced to employ them. The filters work(ed) by filtering out anything on the www that contains so called offensive words, such as sex in particular. Following this, the universities of Essex and Sussex suffered a mysterious but nevertheless catastrophic drop in applications, as their websites became invisible to secondary school applicants and nobod…

[citation needed]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VAa-AouAHxoC&lpg=PA61...

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#18

Post by ZenJosh »

jlgreco wrote: post #14
ZenJosh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the option to disable filtering remains with the customer, which is pretty important. And, from what I gather from the video, unblocking is between the content owner and TalkTalk, not the user. That said, it'd be a good idea to build some kind of request portal for users to request a website be unblocked too.

The option to enable filtering should be with the customer. I can not see any rational argument for any other system.

Sorry, yes, thats what I meant. My bad!

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#19

Post by SagelyGuru »

casca wrote: post #15

These is completely a political move. The history of this is that for many years, the UK ISPs told the Government that implementing filters was too difficult and expensive. Last year TalkTalk broke ranks and launched their HuaweiSymantec-based filtering product for all their customers for free. Since then, they've been very cozy with the 2 main MPs who've been pushing this, Claire Perry and Lynne Featherstone. These…

Yes, and such moves just keep coming because all governments dearly wish to establish firm internet censorship under their own control. (I would love to be proven wrong on this, of course)

The discussions about 'the choice being with the user' and the effectiveness of filtering out sex (insert anything else here that you might be led by the media to morally abhor) are red herrings. These 'moral outrages' are not the real targets but the means to justify putting in place mechanisms to attack the real targets, such as the likes of the Wikileaks.

This is why their poor effectiveness does not matter and the choice is initially suggested to belong to the user. It won't last.

Re: TalkTalk (British ISP) rolls out porn filter

#20

Post by fpp »

So censorship will finally be officially enacted in the UK.

Today it's porn or gambling - tomorrow it is the "wrong" political opinion, the wrong colour of skin, the wrong religion or facts the government (or some of its members) want to bury.

Looks like they soon will party like it's 1984...

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