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Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

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Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#151

Post by trgn »

fsckboy wrote: post #34
emsign wrote: post #6

We need to go back to horseback riding. It's inevitable.

back when we all rode horses, falling off of them was at the top of the accidental death risk for the average person.

I wonder if this is more a wild west pulp fiction meme, than actual reality. A lot of people today are collateral damage of cars, getting maimed, mutilated, crippled, killed, it's pretty indiscriminatory, drivers and bystanders alike suffer its consequences. It's hard to believe horses had the same blast radius proportionally speaking.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#153

Post by fddrdplktrew »

varelaz wrote: post #19

Clickbait. "The toxicity and health effects of brake wear particles are largely unknown". Is there any real harm found? What's the concentration of them close to the dangerous road? What's effect of them comparing to pm10 or pm2.5?

breathing any kind of dust is usually bad for you... even wood saw dust.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#154

Post by FirmwareBurner »

samatman wrote: post #150
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna let you reflect on what you just said.

Translation: you have no coherent response to what I said, and don't like that, so you figured a bit of snark might recover some dignity. It's better to simply not reply.

I gave you my argument in detail above with sources that companies routinely collude in anti-consumer ways, but you decided to strick your fingers in your ears and sing "lalala I don't believe you".

Therefore I have no more replies for you to protect my sanity. Feel free to believe whatever you want to believe, just leve me be, i have no duty to waste my time to change your opinion of something you're fixated on.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#155

Post by itishappy »

saagarjha wrote: post #145
fragmede wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are classes of parking garages too. I’m not parking my hypothetical dream Ferrari next to some poor person’s beat up Honda civic from the 90’s to get dinged and the windows broken. The underground parking garage at Apple must be astounding.

You mean the place where people park their dream Ferraris next to some rich person’s beat up Honda Civic from the 90s?

Right, and I'm going to park my horse right between them!

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#156

Post by _aavaa_ »

decafninja wrote: post #146
_aavaa_ wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence of the abstract also shows a technically correct statement easily used for disingenuous framings: “The coming decades promise a transition from internal combustion engines to electric, and with it a greater relative contribution of nonexhaust sources to urban air pollution.”

The brake dust argument is something I’ve noticed coming more from the “ban all cars” crowd more than the “anti-EV/pro-ICE” crowd. I assume the objective is that these people want to see things go from ICE cars to public transportation instead of EVs.

And while setting up cities to go from car-centric cities to something that's walkable and/or easily accessibly by bus/train/bike for the majority of able-bodied people is something I agree with, that's a change that will take decades to roll out. In the meantime, the cars are here to stay, so we might as well push to get cleaner ones.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#157

Post by Tade0 »

petre wrote: post #83
beembeem wrote: post #71

> All you would need to do is to collect them with an electrostatic precipitator – a device that exposes the charged particles to an electric field and efficiently sweeps them away.” How do they propose to do this? A little device mounted near each brake pad? A skim of the paper doesn't appear to show an opinion from them beyond citing this prior study [1]. The conclusion of the cited paper appears to show a progress…

Too complicated, why not use a magnetic brake instead? The electric motor on hybrids essentially operates like a magnetic brake during regen. Works in 80% of the scenarios and for the rest of 20% we can just use the regular brakes.

Or run the motor in reverse in the final stage of braking.

I drive a hybrid and, when parking, switch between drive and reverse even while still rolling the opposite direction as it's easy for the motor to deal with such loads.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#158

Post by leoh »

Arrath wrote: post #28
leoh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, to replace a brake you must remove it first; and better brake pads there are. Oerlikon of Switzerland has brake pad technology that has near zero emissions and does not need replacing. It’s not in production due to pressure for revenue from service shops.

Presumably these infinite brake pads are part of the regenerative energy generating portion of a perpetual motion machine as well?

The lifetime of most cars a mere hundred thousand miles. If you consider that the current top-end for brakes is ~60k miles and an improvement of ~30% is possible, we're already at ~78k miles -- and this area has scarcely been invested and researched. I'll let you find sources, I've already given you the name of one of the major R&D firms.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#159

Post by Tade0 »

Gigachad wrote: post #128
aceazzameen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being on or near a train platform and you can see brake dust caked on everything. Probably dust combined with grease. It's worse looking than roads.

I’m pretty sure they grease the rails in some spots, particularly the curvy bits that are often near platforms so it would get stuck to the rails and such. Cars would put out massively more pollution but it’s more free to blow around in the wind. I had some boxes stored in a storage cage in my apartment car park and after 6 months sitting there, they were all coated in a thick black dust. Since there was no wind or r…

I could always smell iron filings when standing on an enclosed train platform. There's definitely something floating around there.

Re: Vehicle brakes produce charged particles that may harm public health: study

#160

Post by [deleted] »

samatman wrote: post #111
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It's not like they can form a cartel and collectively decide how long a brake pad should last, just like the incandescent light bulb cartel [1] of the early 20th century or the NAND flash memory cartel of the 21st century. Mate you're far too naive to believe what you're saying. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

A theoretical cartel can do precisely nothing, since it's a mere mental construct. It takes an actual cartel to fix prices (ignoring as a distraction the fact that the link you provide gives several good reasons to think that planned obsolescence was not the primary factor in the lifetime of incandescent bulbs). There is no brake pad cartel. If there is, demonstrate it. If not, again, an imaginary cartel can only do…

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