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Devin: AI Software Engineer

cognition-labs.com

261–270 of 604 posts

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#261

Interesting: The last demo on the blog took 2.5h to complete: https://www.cognition-labs.com/blog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTS2Hz96HYQ "Devin's Upwork Side Hustle" I wonder how much time of this was consumed by manually directing Devin into the right direction, manually fixing and undoing the mess Devin produced and watching Devin burn through $$$. As others said, being completely non-transparent about this bu…

We're solving the wrong problem.

People trying to use cars to pull horse carts are doomed to fail.

Trying to use AI to build the software of yesterday is a waste of time.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#263

Interesting: The last demo on the blog took 2.5h to complete: https://www.cognition-labs.com/blog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTS2Hz96HYQ "Devin's Upwork Side Hustle" I wonder how much time of this was consumed by manually directing Devin into the right direction, manually fixing and undoing the mess Devin produced and watching Devin burn through $$$. As others said, being completely non-transparent about this bu…

We're solving the wrong problem. People trying to use cars to pull horse carts are doomed to fail. Trying to use AI to build the software of yesterday is a waste of time.

So what should the AI build instead? Specifically with regard to UI. I don't want my banking app to run on a bunch of non-deterministic prompts.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#264
AI replacing one of the last well-paid jobs on the planet is a good thing. Large-scale societal changes are triggered when a critical number of haves turn into have-nots. I would recommend junior engineers to study Nechayev and Bakunin instead of the latest React flavor. Those will have a better ROI in the coming years.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#265

There is no way this is going to make it so that "engineers can focus on more interesting problems and engineering teams can strive for more ambitious goals." Instead it will mean that bosses can fire 75-90% of the (very expensive) engineers, with the ones who remain left to prompt the AI and clean up any mistakes/misunderstandings. I guess this is the future. We've coded ourselves out of a job. People are smiling an…

> Instead it will mean that bosses can fire 75-90% of the (very expensive) engineers

Twitter/X fired about that % even before the AI meme. Companies are way too bloated and it's bound to happen.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#266
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, you've entered the first stage of grief. Denial. Next you'll start bargaining, you'll get angry, and you'll become depressed, eventually you'll just accept that AI is taking over software. In my mind, I've concluded that I have less than 3 years to find an off ramp.

No, I'm past the denial stage (I was certainly there, though... GPT threw me hard and I spent a good 2 months processing what was happening) but I don't, in this specific case, see this agent displacing many jobs yet. Well, not my kind of jobs. I'm already very worried for the entry level of our industry... I'm not sure what it means yet, but I don't think we will have many entrants into software careers within 5 yea…

I feel the same way.

I think the immediate future is bright. Some will try to cram this technology into enterprise. It will do well. Those jobs will die. Others will leverage it alongside the more creative engineering tasks—they will thrive.

Eventually, what we call software will change from what it is today into something much more accessible to these types of tools. The plateau we've landed on is just a compromise between the technology, economies, and culture of its time.

As this type of tech pervades our everyday lives, much of the widespread need for specialized software will evaporate. The remaining work will be in the corners or the edges of what's possible—highly technical or vertically integrated work (particularly, hardware-integrated stuff), as well as platform engineering to sustain the new paradigm.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#267
post #73

As a developer but also product person, I keep trying to use AI to code for me. I keep failing, because of context length, because of shit output from the model, because of lack of any kind of architecture etc etc etc. I'm probably dumb as hell, because I just can't get it to do anything remotely useful, more than helping me with leetcode. Just yesterday I tried to feed it a simple HTML page to extract a selector, I…

I'll give you examples of how it helps me: 1) copilot is a terrific auto complete, and writes tremendous amounts of repetitive boilerplate 2) copilot can help me kickstart writing some complex functions starting from a comment where I tell it what is the input and expected output. Is the implementation always perfect or bug free? No. But in general I just need to review and check rather than come up with the instruct…

> 1) copilot is a terrific auto complete, and writes tremendous amounts of repetitive boilerplate

I agree. I have it active on VSCode and enjoy it. It has introduced subtle bugs but the souped up autocomplete is nice.

> 2) copilot can help me kickstart writing some complex functions starting from a comment where I tell it what is the input and expected output. Is the implementation always perfect or bug free? No. But in general I just need to review and check rather than come up with the instruction entirely.

I don't find it very useful for anything non trivial. If anything I found it more useful for generating milestones and tasks for a product, than even making a moderately complex input -> output without me having to check it in a way that annoys me.

> 3) copilot chat helps me a lot in those situations where I would've googled to find how to do this or that and spent a lot of time with irrelevant or outdated search results

I find I don't use copilot chat, almost at all. Nowadays I prefer to go to Gemini and throw in my question.

> 4) I have found use cases for LLMs in production. I had lots of unformatted plain text that I wanted to transform in markdown. All I needed to do is to provide few examples and it did everything on its own. No need to implement complex parsers, but make a query to OpenAI with the prompt and context. Few euros per month in OpenAI credits is still insanely cheaper than paying tons of money in writing and maintaining software by humans for that use case.

This is mostly what I'm using it for in this current project. It does it job nicely but it's very far away from replacing myself as a programmer. It's more like a `fn:magic(text) -> nicer text`. This is a good use case. But it's a tool, not a replacement.

> 5) It helps me tremendously when trying to learn new programming languages or remembering some APIs. Writing CSS selectors is actually a very good example. But I don't feed it an entire HTML as you do, I literally tell him "how do I target the odd numbered list elements that are descendants of .foo-bar for this specific media query". Not sure why would you need to feed it an entire HTML.

Because I get random websites with complex markup, and more often than not every page has its unique structure. I can't just say give me `.foo-bar` because `.foo-bar` might not exist. Which is where the manual process comes in. Currently, I'm using hand crafted queries that get fed into GPT / Claude / LLama, but the actual query is what I wanted it to do.

> 6) LLMs have been extremely useful to generate images and icons for an entire frontend application I wrote

I'm very curious how this behaves in different resolutions. There's a reason vector graphics are a thing. I've used it for this purpose before but it doesn't compare to vectorial formats.

> 7) I instruct him to write and think about test cases about my code. And it does and writes the code and tests. Often thinks about test cases I would've never thought of and catches nice bugs.

What is the context size of your code? It works for trivial snippets but as soon as the system is a bit more complex, I find that it becomes irellevant fairly fast.

> The promise of it writing anything but simple boilerplate, I find it ridiculous because there's way too much nuance in our products, business, devices, systems that you need to follow and work on.

> But as a helper? It's terrific.

> I'm 100% sure that people not using these tools are effectively limiting themselves and their productivity.

Totally agree. But I'm not complaining about its usefulness. I'm a paying user of LLM systems. I use them almost every day. They're part of my products. But this particular hype about it replacing ... me. I don't buy. Yet. It could come tomorrow and I'd be happier for it.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>GPT can't perform to the level of a middle market copywriter or content marketer. I am convinced that people who think LLMs can write have simply not understood what professional writers do. GPT's rigid "robot butler" style is not "just how LLMs write". OpenAI deliberately tuned it to sound that way. Even much weaker models that aren't tuned to write in a particular way can easily pass for human writing.

This is part of the problem with the whole discourse of comparing human writers to LLMs. Superficial things like style and tone aren't the problem, but they are overwhelmingly the focus of these discussions. It's funny to see, because developers are so sensitive about being treated like code monkeys by their non-technical colleagues. But these same devs turn around to treat other professionals as word monkeys, or pix…

I actually agree with you that professional writers _can_ write/communicate much better than LLMs. However, I’ve read way too many articles or chapters in books that are so full of needless fluff before they get to the point. It’s almost as if they wanted to show off that they can write all that and somehow connect it to the main part of the article. I’m not reading the essay to appreciate the writer’s ability to narrate things, instead I care about what they have to say on that topic that brought me to the essay.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#269
post #147

Humans seek work that provides satisfaction and meaning in their life. For every technological advancement, artisans are the first to be made obsolete. Sure we have landfills full of unworn textiles, the market says its good, but overall, we keep destroying what allows humans to seek meaning. Our governments and society have made it clear, if you don't produce value, you don't deserve dignity. We have outsourced art…

Buying handcrafted artisan stuff is a luxury few can afford. I come from a poor family and I was always grateful for mass produced mediocre stuff that we could actually afford.

The capitalist system keeps you poor by design. And you feed the system by purchasing the mass produced garbage. Sure, it is nice to afford stuff when poor, but we don't need to live in a society where being poor is common, or where mass produced garbage is the default option for most.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#270
post #73

As a developer but also product person, I keep trying to use AI to code for me. I keep failing, because of context length, because of shit output from the model, because of lack of any kind of architecture etc etc etc. I'm probably dumb as hell, because I just can't get it to do anything remotely useful, more than helping me with leetcode. Just yesterday I tried to feed it a simple HTML page to extract a selector, I…

> Just give me a product that works as advertised

Almost no products fit this description, and if they do then the marketing department is getting fired.

Does a Mcdonalds burger look like the picture?

If you go in with a healthy dose of cynicism IMO LLMs can impress. I’d call it a better google search and autocomplete on steroids.

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