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Devin: AI Software Engineer

cognition-labs.com

221–230 of 604 posts

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#221
post #147

Humans seek work that provides satisfaction and meaning in their life. For every technological advancement, artisans are the first to be made obsolete. Sure we have landfills full of unworn textiles, the market says its good, but overall, we keep destroying what allows humans to seek meaning. Our governments and society have made it clear, if you don't produce value, you don't deserve dignity. We have outsourced art…

Buying handcrafted artisan stuff is a luxury few can afford. I come from a poor family and I was always grateful for mass produced mediocre stuff that we could actually afford.

Handcrafted artisinal stuff is a luxury because that's the only niche that makes economic sense for it now, given mass production and other recent developments (too lazy to list, sorry).

Consider how you can't really get by in most of America without a car because we designed our cities to require them. It would be a mistake to conclude that, because life is harder in a car-optimized society without a car, society must be better off optimizing for cars.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#222
When you have software in prod failing because it was built by shoddy "AI" and people who copy/paste because they don't know any better, and you need a fix, give me a ring.

I have tried using GPT4 & gemini extensively, and the amount of bullshit generated makes it unreliable if you don't already know the domain. These tools lack the critical stuff (being context-aware), and just make up libraries and APIs. Yet you can't be sure when it's bullshitting or not, making it an exercise in frustration for anything that's not trivial.

Save your money and buy an o'reilly subscription.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely a win for society (in the longer term), but in the meantime a lot of people's lives were upended, devasted, and even ended due to the upheavel. Maybe we can avoid that this time, but I doubt it. You can't tell someone who's children are starving that it's all worth it.

[flagged]

Every 4th or 5th person makes at least $200k/yr in the Bay Area. It's hard to believe but the percentiles are radically different vs. US-wide.

https://vitalsigns.mtc.ca.gov/indicators/income

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#224
I have in my codebase several really long django views files (3k lines!). They were written in a poor fashion with many nested if statements for parsing and error handling.

On a one by one basis I can use VSCode github copilot to rewrite each one the way I want it.

What I want to do is iterate through all functions in the files and do each one of them.

I know we are getting there, but does anybody know how that can be done right now?

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#225
Don't get it. If we have this amazing AI why don't we make good use of it? 90% of my job is not to write code (as a senior software engineer), is to:

- deobfuscate complex requirements into well divided chunks

- find gaps or holes in requirements so that I have to write the minimal amount of code

- understand codebases so that the implementation fits nicely

I don't need an "AI software engineer", I need an "AI people person who gives me well defined tasks". Now sure, if you combine those two kinds of AIs I could perhaps become irrelevant.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#226
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experiments at Pythagora[0], we've found that sweet spot is technical person who doesn't want to know, doesn't know, or doesn't care about the details, but is still technical enough to be able to guide the AI. Also, it's not either/or, for best effect use human and AI brainpower combined, because what's trivial vs tedious for human and AI is different so actually we can complement each other. Also, current crop…

.

I would clarify that "there" in my "not there yet" doesn't assume superhuman AGI developer that will automagically solve all the software development projects. That's a deep philosophical issue best addressed in a pub somewhere ;-)

But roughly on par with what could be expected of today's junior software developer (unaided by AI)? Definitely.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#227
post #73

As a developer but also product person, I keep trying to use AI to code for me. I keep failing, because of context length, because of shit output from the model, because of lack of any kind of architecture etc etc etc. I'm probably dumb as hell, because I just can't get it to do anything remotely useful, more than helping me with leetcode. Just yesterday I tried to feed it a simple HTML page to extract a selector, I…

I'll give you examples of how it helps me:

1) copilot is a terrific auto complete, and writes tremendous amounts of repetitive boilerplate

2) copilot can help me kickstart writing some complex functions starting from a comment where I tell it what is the input and expected output. Is the implementation always perfect or bug free? No. But in general I just need to review and check rather than come up with the instruction entirely.

3) copilot chat helps me a lot in those situations where I would've googled to find how to do this or that and spent a lot of time with irrelevant or outdated search results

4) I have found use cases for LLMs in production. I had lots of unformatted plain text that I wanted to transform in markdown. All I needed to do is to provide few examples and it did everything on its own. No need to implement complex parsers, but make a query to OpenAI with the prompt and context. Few euros per month in OpenAI credits is still insanely cheaper than paying tons of money in writing and maintaining software by humans for that use case.

5) It helps me tremendously when trying to learn new programming languages or remembering some APIs. Writing CSS selectors is actually a very good example. But I don't feed it an entire HTML as you do, I literally tell him "how do I target the odd numbered list elements that are descendants of .foo-bar for this specific media query". Not sure why would you need to feed it an entire HTML.

6) LLMs have been extremely useful to generate images and icons for an entire frontend application I wrote

7) I instruct him to write and think about test cases about my code. And it does and writes the code and tests. Often thinks about test cases I would've never thought of and catches nice bugs.

I really don't buy nor think it can write too much on its own.

The promise of it writing anything but simple boilerplate, I find it ridiculous because there's way too much nuance in our products, business, devices, systems that you need to follow and work on.

But as a helper? It's terrific.

I'm 100% sure that people not using these tools are effectively limiting themselves and their productivity.

It's like arguing you're better off writing code without a type checker or without intellisense.

Sure you can do it, but you're gonna be less effective.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#228
post #73

As a developer but also product person, I keep trying to use AI to code for me. I keep failing, because of context length, because of shit output from the model, because of lack of any kind of architecture etc etc etc. I'm probably dumb as hell, because I just can't get it to do anything remotely useful, more than helping me with leetcode. Just yesterday I tried to feed it a simple HTML page to extract a selector, I…

I think it requires years of proficiency in the field you are asking about in order to get openai to produce meaningful, useful output. I can make use of it, but sometimes it makes me think "how would a newbie even phrase an objection to this misunderstanding or omission?" Currently it seems gpts are pretty much not on par with the needs of non-experts.

You might be on to something here. It definitely seems to be the case because I'm using multiple different models as part of my everyday process and getting excellent results as a very experienced low level C++ systems engineer.

What is worse is that seems to be leading to a self-amplifying feedback loop, where people not up to speed enough with the models try to use them, fail and give up making them fall even further behind.

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#229
post #147

Humans seek work that provides satisfaction and meaning in their life. For every technological advancement, artisans are the first to be made obsolete. Sure we have landfills full of unworn textiles, the market says its good, but overall, we keep destroying what allows humans to seek meaning. Our governments and society have made it clear, if you don't produce value, you don't deserve dignity. We have outsourced art…

Buying handcrafted artisan stuff is a luxury few can afford. I come from a poor family and I was always grateful for mass produced mediocre stuff that we could actually afford.

Sure but the same optimizations that bring the costs down, bring down the average laborers value.

I'm not saying that things were sunshine and rainbows pre-industrialization, but there's some level of analysis to be done on the durability and value of a handcrafted piece of clothing, the care that goes into maintaining it, the value of a local economy, and the other side where you're forced to buy cheap items that degrade at a far faster rate.

If a town's local businesses are put out by a new walmart's ability to carry low prices, does the town truly come out ahead with those low prices? Or does Walmart simply extract more money from the town than it returns, leaving the town worse off?

Re: Devin: AI Software Engineer

#230
post #73

As a developer but also product person, I keep trying to use AI to code for me. I keep failing, because of context length, because of shit output from the model, because of lack of any kind of architecture etc etc etc. I'm probably dumb as hell, because I just can't get it to do anything remotely useful, more than helping me with leetcode. Just yesterday I tried to feed it a simple HTML page to extract a selector, I…

As with everything about AI, HN once again shows a remarkable inability to project into the future.

This site has honestly been absolutely useless when discussing new technology now. No excitement, no curiosity. Just constantly crapping on anything new and lamenting that a brand new technology is not 100% perfect within a year of launch.

Remove "Hacker" from this site's name, because I see none of that spirit here anymore!

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