Can someone explain why they didn't simply admit more international students to avoid this problem? Not to say that this is a good solution, but it's what I would expect the people who run universities to do.
California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
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Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#52fun fact for the older HN community: The CSU system has a distance learning system (esp. SJSU), if you're interested in learning something new for fun - it's a great resource. I've used it over the last couple of years and am contemplating getting a masters from here as well. Are CSUs academic powerhouses? No. Are they still great for learning upper division physics, chemistry, and math at an affordable price? Absolu…
Another fun fact, having worked for CSU extended education. The extended education department is entirely self-funded (which is why credits cost more), and receives grants from the state. Thus, they are the only department in the school that has money. Guess who the best teachers want to work for...
It is like a little private school, within the system.
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#53Can someone explain why they didn't simply admit more international students to avoid this problem? Not to say that this is a good solution, but it's what I would expect the people who run universities to do.
That can cause problems of its own. See Canada for example:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/intl-student-program-1.709599...
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#54Current CSU Lecturer here, working for one of our largest campuses. Since I started 10 years ago, my department (CS) has seen more than double the amount of enrollment. Projections for us are to double again in the next 4 years or so.
The decline in student population might be a thing system-wide, but not for certain areas like STEM.
Edit: Also, we have lost quite a few faculty due to our poor pay, which makes our overall class sizes huge. When I started, class size was capped at 35. Now I have two lecture-hall size classes at ~100 students per class.
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#55> According to the Education Data Initiative, college enrollment statistics indicate that more Americans are forgoing higher education; “some may be putting off college attendance to build savings.” Less demand should reduce the price to attend, right?
I'm not sure they will lower prices.
For selective colleges I think the impact will be negligible. They already reject a sizeable fraction of applicants so it would be less painful for them to respond to a shrinking applicant pool by rejecting a slightly smaller fraction of that pool.
And many of the rest may not be able to afford to lower the price due to administrative bloat:
"For example three universities, the California Institute of Technology, Duke University, and the University of California at San Diego actually have more non-faculty employees on campus than students."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulweinstein/2023/08/28/admini...
For many colleges it would be substantially less painful to slowly go bankrupt than to attempt to fire half of the staff. Perhaps new lower-priced entrants will emerge from the wreckage, but I don't think most existing schools can afford to lower their prices at this point.
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#56The article is pretty light on facts. I wish there was some real analysis here. There's no shame in going to CSU traditionally; lots of great schools in the system and certainly fine alumni.
>There's no shame in going to CSU traditionally; lots of great schools in the system and certainly fine alumni. Nonsense. Everyone knows that CSU grads are viewed as strictly second tier to UC grads in this industry, even though CSU standards are higher than just about any other state university. It's the most pathetic and meaningless form of credentialism I've ever seen, but don't pretend like it isn't the case. Eve…
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Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#57Some of these schools didn’t have enough housing. It’s not surprising that students don’t want to sleep in cars anymore.
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#58> According to the Education Data Initiative, college enrollment statistics indicate that more Americans are forgoing higher education; “some may be putting off college attendance to build savings.” Less demand should reduce the price to attend, right?
There is little/no price pressure on universities.
* Many/most loads are backed by the government.
* Government doesn't put any restrictions on the amount of the loan.
* Colleges are paid regardless if a student is unable to pay a load.
There is little price pressure on colleges right now. Maybe students are finally figuring out being burdened with a lot of debt is bad, but it's more of an indirect signal to colleges. Colleges only will feel pain if students start going straight into industry or trade schools.
Ideally, the government should get out of backing student loans. That would make underwriters actually look at the chance that a given person would be able to pay-back said loan with a given degree. This would help apply some price pressures. As well, if colleges could somehow take a partial financial hit if students weren't able to pay back a loan, maybe that would help as well.
Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#59Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment
#60Is this really surprising? Let's just look at US demographics right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... Looking at the chart, I'd expect to have seen a drop in enrollments among those younger than early to mid 20's over the last few years. 6% easily seems en par with the demographics shift. If that reasoning is correct, we'll see a slight recovery or stabilization peaking in about 5 y…
Joe Biden basically spearheaded the US ability to turn student lending into a perpetual organ grinder of human misery in 1976. Did US colleges think people wouldn't wise up to the nightmare of un-dischargeable debt and the explosion of papermill colleges from Section 439 after fifty years?
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-made-it-harder-to-disc...
it will likely take another fifty years to rebuild the confidence of parents (millennials who experienced this predatory lending firsthand) as well as kids (who watched their parents struggle under predatory lending) to re-enter higher education and this couldnt come at a more inconvenient time as China is set to eclipse the US as a superpower.