Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

msn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 80 posts

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#41

Post by WhatsTheBigIdea »

bruceb wrote: post #18
ramesh31 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no shame in going to CSU traditionally; lots of great schools in the system and certainly fine alumni. Nonsense. Everyone knows that CSU grads are viewed as strictly second tier to UC grads in this industry, even though CSU standards are higher than just about any other state university. It's the most pathetic and meaningless form of credentialism I've ever seen, but don't pretend like it isn't the case. Eve…

You think the avg CSU student is going to perform the same as avg UC student?

Personally, I feel your average student is likely to perform quite poorly for the first couple years at a real job regardless of the institution they attended.

It is all about the individuals!

I've worked with so many people who grew up poor or had other disadvantages, went to community college or their local city or state school, and then turned into fabulously productive and insightful people.

Conversely, I've worked with so many people who graduated from elite institutions who have not turned out so well.

I'm the first to admit that the elite institutions generate a higher hit rate, but not nearly high enough for me to discount people coming out of lesser schools.

One of the smartest (and richest!) guys I know graduated from San Jose State.

City College of New York has graduated more Nobel Prize winners than any other institution in the world!

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#42

Post by darth_avocado »

panzagl wrote: post #3

I know when my daughter started college 5 years ago, the dean was up front that there was a demographic cliff coming up, I wonder how much of the decline is that.

> there was a demographic cliff coming up

Then ALL universities would see a drop in enrollment, except the ones at the very top of desirability list? Otherwise it could be attributed to other things like high cost of living or more useless degrees available in the university system.

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#43

Post by kion »

throwup238 wrote: post #7
readthenotes1 wrote: post #5

The headline could read: Parents and children are waking up to the student loan con game.

CSU is the cheaper state university system in California. It costs like $6,000 per year for in-state students. If they were waking up to the con game, more would be going there.

Tuition and non-tuition costs have both absolutely skyrocketed and made CSUs unaffordable for a lot of people. I went to Cal Poly, my entire freshman year was ~$6000 in 1997. It was an even split between $3k tuition and 3k student housing/food. I could actually mostly pay my own tuition without finical aid, holding a part time campus job.

Today those numbers are $11.5k tuition and ~21.5k non-tuition (https://www.calpoly.edu/financial-aid/costs-and-affordabilit...) which is triple the inflation adjusted value from 1997. After 4 years (5 more likely) you're looking at > $125k in costs, which absolutely puts most people into massive loan debt. Even a part time job ($16/h) would offset barely a third of this.

CSU is just beyond expensive compared to 20 years ago.

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#44

Post by breadwinner »

ramesh31 wrote: post #11
KerrAvon wrote: post #4

The article is pretty light on facts. I wish there was some real analysis here. There's no shame in going to CSU traditionally; lots of great schools in the system and certainly fine alumni.

>There's no shame in going to CSU traditionally; lots of great schools in the system and certainly fine alumni. Nonsense. Everyone knows that CSU grads are viewed as strictly second tier to UC grads in this industry, even though CSU standards are higher than just about any other state university. It's the most pathetic and meaningless form of credentialism I've ever seen, but don't pretend like it isn't the case. Eve…

> Even Merced is seen as above Cal Poly.

Seen by who, exactly?

See how many of the lists below UC Merced appears in, how many Cal Poly SLO appears in:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/top-colleges-high-paying-jobs-t...

https://gizmodo.com/artificial-intelligence-college-program-...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/still-want-job-tech-top-12000...

https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-...

https://qz.com/967985/silicon-valley-companies-like-apple-aa...

https://www.businessinsider.com/top-colleges-for-working-in-...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/20-schools-most-grads-apple-153...

https://www.businessinsider.com/schools-with-the-most-alumni...

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#45

Post by whearyou »

mertd wrote: post #40
Enginerrrd wrote: post #24

Is this really surprising? Let's just look at US demographics right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... Looking at the chart, I'd expect to have seen a drop in enrollments among those younger than early to mid 20's over the last few years. 6% easily seems en par with the demographics shift. If that reasoning is correct, we'll see a slight recovery or stabilization peaking in about 5 y…

Population pyramid is the new population density meme. https://xkcd.com/1138/

Now I know the strategy for our next board meeting…

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#46

Post by r00fus »

I mean, this explanation seems valid - more of a symptom of a poor/uncertain economy:

> According to the Education Data Initiative, college enrollment statistics indicate that more Americans are forgoing higher education; “some may be putting off college attendance to build savings.”

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#47

Post by alistairSH »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #20
panzagl wrote: post #3

I know when my daughter started college 5 years ago, the dean was up front that there was a demographic cliff coming up, I wonder how much of the decline is that.

Structural demographics are likely a component, but also potential students evaluating the cost based on evidence of value. https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/college-degree-jobs-un... | https://archive.today/oyc5e ("WSJ: Half of College Grads Are Working Jobs That Don’t Use Their Degrees") > That is the key finding of a new study tracking the career paths of more than 10 million people who entered the job market…

I drilled into some of the links in that article, but nowhere did I find a definition of "underemployed" in this context. Is there a standard definition? Or did I just miss the definition in the article?

"Jobs that don't require a degree" is a very squishy definition, if that's what was used. Technically, software development doesn't require a degree - I work with several excellent developers who lack credentials.

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#48

Post by bsder »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #24

Is this really surprising? Let's just look at US demographics right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta... Looking at the chart, I'd expect to have seen a drop in enrollments among those younger than early to mid 20's over the last few years. 6% easily seems en par with the demographics shift. If that reasoning is correct, we'll see a slight recovery or stabilization peaking in about 5 y…

When I taught in the Cal State system, almost 1/3 of my CS class were professionals looking to upgrade their situation.

I wonder if that group has swung some of the stats.

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#49

Post by alistairSH »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #5

The headline could read: Parents and children are waking up to the student loan con game.

If by con you mean "a degree is worth, on average, about $1 million over a career vs high school only".[1]

Yes, there are degrees that don't confer an obvious or immediate value, but on whole, college still pays off, even with loan interest included.

And I don't mean to imply college shouldn't cost less, it should.

https://www.wral.com/story/fact-check-do-college-graduates-e...

Re: California State University system sees unprecedented decline in enrollment

#50

Post by r00fus »

Escapado wrote: post #21
throwup238 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CSU is the cheaper state university system in California. It costs like $6,000 per year for in-state students. If they were waking up to the con game, more would be going there.

Which is still about twice of what I paid for my entire bachelors and masters education in germany and it included a ticket for the entire public transport system in my city for the entire 5 years and full access to _very_ comprehensive library (of both physical books and e-books so there was no need to buy even a single book during my studies). I may speak from a perspective of ignorance here but I believe 6000$ a y…

At one point, California had free community college. They could have expanded that to CSU instead of charging for CC as well.

But some people in the ownership class have to get new yachts...

Post reply on HN