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Simpson's paradox

en.wikipedia.org

91–100 of 111 posts

Re: Simpson's paradox

#91

I once encountered this in the real world as a data analyst a long time ago. I was working at an e-commerce company, called The Hut Group, and the whole year our marketing team had been saying our marketing cost of goods sold (the percentage of our revenue we needed to spend on marketing) had been declining across every product category. But at year end, the execs were shocked to realize that our cost of goods sold h…

every time I hear about examples of simpson in peactice, I don't get what lesson to learn marketting team overoptimized, so non-nutrition demand fell? drop nutrition from line of products, so that you're both efficient in products you do and overall? these metrics are insufficient and it's better to look at gross change rather than ratios? I have no idea

IME, the "problem" (to the extent there is one) is almost always that the naïvely-chosen KPI metric wasn't specific enough.

Here's a recent example from a friend. You're a SaaS company, and your home page's load time is reported as slow. You set your KPI for the quarter to be "reduce p99 load time of the home page by 50%".

The load time is a function of customer size, so bigger customers = slower home page. It's actually a quadratic function. So the p99 of small customers is like the p50 of large customers. You have 20 small customers and 20 big customers.

That quarter, the sales team onboards 10 new tiny customers, and 10 big customers churn. It's the holiday season in your big customers' geo, so mostly small customers are using the platform. It's the busiest time of year for the small customers, so they're over-using the platform.

All these factors lead to p99 latency dropping by 60%, smashing the KPI goal. Bonuses all around, pats on the back. And no code changes needed, besides!

The solution is: choose a KPI that is tightly coupled to your problem, and not confounded with other variables.

In the above case, a better KPI would have been "p99 latency for large customers", because it is robust to the distribution of customer sizes across current users, churned users, and seasonal differences in usage.

Re: Simpson's paradox

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “veridical paradox”, where it seems false but is true. > any proof that 1=0 So, 1=0 seems false but is true?

1=0 proofs are examples of a different type of paradox. It is an example of a paradox that does not seem true.

Ah, reading comprehension is hard. I thought you were listing different examples of the same paradox for some reason. Carry on.

Re: Simpson's paradox

#93
post #85
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key difference is between statistics on passively collected data vs results from active experiments. The former will only ever show correlations, while the latter can prove causal results from the actions of the experimenter.

Also, results from active experiments aren't limited to statistics. You can set up experiments to have discrete results, where no statistics is required to test a hypothesis. For example, the GHZ experiment [1] can rule out local hidden variable models and confirm QM predictions with no statistics at all: the two different models make contradictory predictions with no continuous variation between them. [1] https://en…

If you read a good experimental paper on GHZ, you will find quite a bit of statistics.

Re: Simpson's paradox

#94

I once encountered this in the real world as a data analyst a long time ago. I was working at an e-commerce company, called The Hut Group, and the whole year our marketing team had been saying our marketing cost of goods sold (the percentage of our revenue we needed to spend on marketing) had been declining across every product category. But at year end, the execs were shocked to realize that our cost of goods sold h…

Pretty much every dataset I work with as an SRE is full of these paradoxes. One classic published example comes from Google: A network engineer took a trip to Indonesia or something (can't find the citation to confirm the exact tale), noticed the service was slow, and when asking around everyone said "that's how its always been." Basically the local cellular networks are slow and off island fiber connects are saturat…

This reminds me of a similar story with YouTube [1] where improving the page weight decreased the metrics because more people with lower end connections could access the page.

Metrics interpretation is as important as the metrics themselves!

[1]: https://blog.chriszacharias.com/page-weight-matters

Re: Simpson's paradox

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every dataset I work with as an SRE is full of these paradoxes. One classic published example comes from Google: A network engineer took a trip to Indonesia or something (can't find the citation to confirm the exact tale), noticed the service was slow, and when asking around everyone said "that's how its always been." Basically the local cellular networks are slow and off island fiber connects are saturat…

This reminds me of a similar story with YouTube [1] where improving the page weight decreased the metrics because more people with lower end connections could access the page. Metrics interpretation is as important as the metrics themselves! [1]: https://blog.chriszacharias.com/page-weight-matters

That may be exactly the story I was thinking of, or perhaps the original of a story I encountered on a GCP cloud post or something.

Re: Simpson's paradox

#96
post #43

The short animation on the wiki page is a great example of a picture being worth 1000 words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Simpsons_paradox_-_animat...

Hot damn, you're not kidding. I was struggling a bit with it from reading the article text, but that animation clarified it for me in seconds!

Here it is in one static image: https://i.imgur.com/qJsTjpp.jpeg

Re: Simpson's paradox

#97
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, results from active experiments aren't limited to statistics. You can set up experiments to have discrete results, where no statistics is required to test a hypothesis. For example, the GHZ experiment [1] can rule out local hidden variable models and confirm QM predictions with no statistics at all: the two different models make contradictory predictions with no continuous variation between them. [1] https://en…

If you read a good experimental paper on GHZ, you will find quite a bit of statistics.

Sure, but that doesn't contradict what I said. From the Wikipedia article I referenced:

"For specific combinations of orientations, perfect (rather than statistical) correlations between the three polarizations are predicted by both local hidden variable theory (aka "local realism") and by quantum mechanical theory, and the predictions may be contradictory."

"Perfect" correlations means, as the parenthetical comment shows, "doesn't require statistics to check".

Re: Simpson's paradox

#98
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read a good experimental paper on GHZ, you will find quite a bit of statistics.

Sure, but that doesn't contradict what I said. From the Wikipedia article I referenced: "For specific combinations of orientations, perfect (rather than statistical) correlations between the three polarizations are predicted by both local hidden variable theory (aka "local realism") and by quantum mechanical theory, and the predictions may be contradictory." "Perfect" correlations means, as the parenthetical comment…

You said

> the GHZ experiment [1] can rule out local hidden variable models and confirm QM predictions with no statistics at all

However, one needs to use statistics to even show GHZ works. That does sound contradictory to me. The correlations you get in experiments are never perfect and in this case they can be pretty far from perfect.

Re: Simpson's paradox

#99
post #12

I absolutely love the Ellenberg quote: > Mathematician Jordan Ellenberg argues that Simpson's paradox is misnamed as "there's no contradiction involved, just two different ways to think about the same data" and suggests that its lesson "isn't really to tell us which viewpoint to take but to insist that we keep both the parts and the whole in mind at once." Keeping multiple possibilities in mind at once was what allow…

Interesting list of Epicurean theories. Any good starting point that addresses them together and how multiple possibility thinking is related?

Re: Simpson's paradox

#100
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your example isn‘t a case of Simpson‘s Paradox (which is purely statistical), but Jevons Paradox (which is about human behaviour and economics).

Good point! I'm just a humble Linux sysadmin dubbed "SRE" who slept through Stats for Engineers and now pays the price every week dealing with SWE eager to blame me for their mistakes.

You were right; that was a case of Simpson's paradox. Every category experienced a latency boost but the overall statistic worsened. Jevon's paradox is what caused the induced demand, but when the new usage data was gathered the initial review was an example of Simpson's paradox.

Effect of the change -> Jevon's paradox.

Measurement of Jevon's paradox -> Simpson's paradox (in this case, that isn't a general rule).

The fact that the two are easily linked is one of the reasons the statistical paradox is so common in practice.

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