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The internet is slipping out of our reach

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Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#51

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

082349872349872 wrote: post #48
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you're the sort of person who doesn't understand why IRC got marginalised Or X Windows. I still hear the occasional diatribe, on how X is "just as good as" Windows or Mac (usually from a person that pretty much exclusively uses CLI). These folks can't understand why desktop Linux hasn't crushed the Microsoft/Apple hegemony. People who hang in like-minded communities can often assume that "everyone" is just l…

GP> Private spaces might be a big net win. I am old enough to remember the pre-Internet geek world; things like cons and zines were way more important than now, but they existed, and we definitely didn't expect for there to be, let alone rely on, mainstream channels providing our social contact. > there are a lot more non-tecchies, and they are the ultimate arbiters of what succeeds or dies. Succeeds, yes. Dies? I th…

Well, "dies" happens, when the Eloi don't use/buy something.

Morlocks like to be paid. If they don't get paid, they might not do it.

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#52

Post by ergonaught »

It's a signal to noise ratio problem which automation is clearly, plainly, obviously, going to worsen/exacerbate/amplify in every manner. Even if Google themselves hadn't incentivized the problem in the first place, it's far too late to correct.

You cannot conduct a conversation about it, either, because of a similar signal to noise ratio problem, as people who don't care or don't bother to think it through feel compelled to "contribute". And the inevitable "I asked ChatGPT to reply and it said..." noise.

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#53

Post by pjc50 »

roenxi wrote: post #14

This reads to me like a rant. Good material for a blog post but I don't think there is anything particularly profound going on. The internet is not a static place, and parts are always being born and dying. Maybe today is going to be Google search. There was an interesting question early on in the internet of whether content would be aggregated by corporate entities or whether people would self-host and communicate p…

> I don't even think communities retreating to Discord is a bad thing. The public internet is too small; we can't all fit in it. Private spaces might be a big net win

Yeah, I think we should not underestimate the "dark forest" aspect of the 2020s Internet. It's assumed that discoverability is a good thing, and what so many pages are optimizing for - but it isn't always. People don't want to be exposed to political witch hunts (of any faction!) or DDoS.

HN exists in a liminal space where it's hostile enough to keep the turnover down, while being comfortable enough to sustain its social existence.

(Also, people say "our reach" while at the same time the Internet remains radically individualistic - if you want there to be an "us" there has to be some sort of solidarity and governance, the total free-for-all was never sustainable except on the very margins)

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#54

Post by nstart »

Someone once asked a question online about what each person's biggest fear was regarding the future of AI generated content. I thought about it.

While the fears of not being able to earn money for creative pursuits are a concern, my biggest concern remains around anonymity.

At some point, I fear that participating online with other humans will require "proof of self" and as AI becomes more and more able to generate convincing images/text/video/voice of being human, the systems will ask more and more of us to prove we are real humans which could lead to awful consequences in disallowing anonymity entirely.

That worry remains right up there in my list of AI related concerns.

The parallel concern to that are online communities become tightly gated with stringent requirements of relationships (i.e. invite only, possibly with multiple "referees") and proof of quality in order to participate. This outcome has its merits but can also lead to exclusionary environments which has many downsides, esp for newcomers. It could very well feel like participating in low quality ranked levels of a game for a long time before being allowed to climb out of the cesspool into higher levels where people take stuff more seriously. Not necessarily a bad thing but it's still an inversion of the idea of "participation allowed by default but you can lose the trust you are given if you behave poorly".

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#55

Post by pjc50 »

mikewarot wrote: post #5

The root cause is the failure of the ambient authority model of computer software. This is the hill I'm willing to die upon. Requiring that the user of software absolutely trust it to do exactly what it says on the tin, is insane. All manner of ill follow from that in a most predictable manner. Enshittification is a consequence of people not being able to host their own shit on machines connected to the internet.

Could you explain "ambient authority model of computer software"?

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#56

Post by throw_m239339 »

> Do you often append "reddit" or "wiki" to your Google search queries?

Unfortunately, yes, site:something.com has become mandatory for finding the right information on Google search, otherwise, I'm getting spammed by fake ass AI content that doesn't even answer my question.

How ironic. Google became number one because it managed to beat its competitors at accuracy, and 25 years later, here we are...

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#57

Post by vouaobrasil »

CraftingLinks wrote: post #40
vouaobrasil wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI cannot be objective because it mirrors the bulk of humanity with all its follies. Marketing departments don't have to nerf AI because AI already outputs the irrationality and stupidity of what is on the internet.

'All it follies' usually contains all viewpoints. It sees all echo chambers. If AI can 'think for itself', ie.its hand isn't forced. Objectivity and rationality could well be hallmarks imo.

No. Humanity has fundamental biases shared by almost all the population. Societies function because of shared values but sometimes those values are destructive. Most people believe in civilization but as it stands, civilization is destructive and unsustainable.

Furthermore, AI evolves WITHIN a system of capitalism, which functions as an evolutionary framework. New AIs are selected that function well within capitalism, so we can expect AI to be supportive of technological growth and capitalism. (Of course, it many occasional espouse alternate viewpoints, but only to the level where it allows dissidents to blow off steam and belief something is being done.)

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#58

Post by throw_m239339 »

renegade-otter wrote: post #2

AI is just one facet of the issue, and it only exacerbates the real problem. Algorithmification, enshitification, etc. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/why-the-in... The old guards of Amazon and Google are gone - no one is there to nurture the product . The new business school jocks are there to juice it, juice it to the max, bro! Quarter to quarter, so that the vaunted SHAREHOLDER does not get all m…

Investors demand infinite growth. So when your company is already very lucrative, how do you make it even more lucrative? By taking financial risks in new product creation? No, by squeezing as much profitability as you can from existing products...

edit:grammar

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#59

Post by locallost »

Not sure this is the fault of Google directly, as much as SEO. As the saying goes: once a measure becomes a target it ceases to be a good measure. Armies of pages trying to get good ranking does not mean there is something of value there. But it really is increasingly frustrating trying to find information on something and only finding drivel or nonsense. For me the biggest issue is people eventually started creating content because others wanted to read it and not that they personally were either experts on it or even interested in it. "I want to start a side hustle" -> "I will write about nutrition".

I use the wiki and increasingly reddit search hacks a lot, but even those are long term doomed.

Re: The internet is slipping out of our reach

#60

Post by [deleted] »

nstart wrote: post #54

Someone once asked a question online about what each person's biggest fear was regarding the future of AI generated content. I thought about it. While the fears of not being able to earn money for creative pursuits are a concern, my biggest concern remains around anonymity. At some point, I fear that participating online with other humans will require "proof of self" and as AI becomes more and more able to generate c…

[deleted]
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