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Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

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Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#231

Post by hirvi74 »

yurishimo wrote: post #146
icedchai wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an 1980's "gifted" kid, believe me, they made sure you knew. IQ tests in 3rd grade, "enrichment" classes 3x a week, taking the SAT in 7th grade for some special program. Later in life, most of these gifted kids were total disappointments. I know I am.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I was a "gifted" kid too. Turning 30 this year. I was in advanced classes from around 4th or 5th grade when they started separating us (suburban Texas) and then went to a special high school where I graduated with an associates degree and my high school diploma. Not trying to brag, just to relate and say I've been there. I wouldn't say I was a disappointment, but I certainly didn't go as far a…

One of the major issues is that IQ has basically no cardinality to my understanding. We can all agree that 105 score is "smarter" than a 100, but we cannot discern to what degree.

I've read some conjectures that IQ is quite accurate below average, but seems to fall apart rather quickly the further one starts looking at scores above 100. But who knows? I'm just some random dude with Internet access.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#232

Post by tester457 »

the-chitmonger wrote: post #72
Zealotux wrote: post #12

The first book I couldn't put down and had to read in one sitting. It may be the origin of my fear of mental decline, which is much more horrific than death to me.

Hard agree - this book inspired a fear in me that led me to seek every possible preventative method to combat dementia or other neurodegenerative diseases. In case anyone wants to see my (admittedly amateur) research, I've listed some things I've found below. - Exercise regularly and mitigate conditions like diabetes, hypertension*, high cholesterol [1] (aerobic exercise seems to be the best for this, likely because…

Be wary of taking nicotine. I recall people becoming addicted after thinking they could handle it after reading Gwern's post on nicotine.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#233

Post by hirvi74 »

bombcar wrote: post #141
vouaobrasil wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There are very few wild areas left, especially in warmer areas. Much of the natural resources of these areas are contaminated such as water. Natural areas are often government-managed or privately owned. Gone are the days where you could wander off into the wild and just live as some of the indigineous tribes used to.

You could live as long as you wanted on BLM land, as long as you kept moving. Of course, you'd probably die pretty quickly, but nobody would stop you. The chance of living on a proverbial paradisal desert island isn't available anymore; those places are desirable!

> BLM

What does this mean? I doubt it stands for the political acronym that first comes to my mind.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#234

Post by hirvi74 »

api wrote: post #30

A friend of mine brought this book up when she finally went on ADD medication. At first she was like "wow, I can function!" Then she remembered reading this story and says she always fears the medication no longer working. A classic, and increasingly relevant as we continue to push the limits of improving human performance and fixing sub-optimal neurological phenomena like depression and ADD/ADHD.

As someone with ADHD, I have had this discussion with doctors numerous times. Not a single one of them have ever read F4A, but many were aware of the plot at least.

I still warn people new to ADHD about the sinister side(s) of medication. One of the issues I learned real quick during the shortage of the past few years is that what ever is "given" can be "taken."

I have a decent enough job that provides me a stable life. Nothing to write home about. However, when I was off medication for bits during the shortage, I noticed that my life was built on a house a cards. I managed to create a life that I could not sustain without medication. Everything worked out in the end, but I got a nice glimpse of the what awaited me, and it's a long fall back to rock bottom.

It's made me a bit paranoid in the sense that I feel like I have to be overly cautious about financial and occupational decisions (not a bad thing, I suppose). If I were to buy a house with a certain level of income or take on a new role, I need to be certain that in a "worst case scenario" that I can still chew whatever I bit off.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#235

Post by monknomo »

hirvi74 wrote: post #233
bombcar wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could live as long as you wanted on BLM land, as long as you kept moving. Of course, you'd probably die pretty quickly, but nobody would stop you. The chance of living on a proverbial paradisal desert island isn't available anymore; those places are desirable!

> BLM What does this mean? I doubt it stands for the political acronym that first comes to my mind.

Bureau of Land Management

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#236

Post by monknomo »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #186
msgilligan wrote: post #126

"I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life." Regardless of one's political opinion of Ronald Reagan, his letter announcing his Alzheimer's diagnosis is relevant and poignant. https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/reagans/ronald-reagan/reagans-...

Nancy Reagan was a pretty decent president [for Ronnie's 2nd term, probably its entirety]. Not my favorite oligarchy figureheads, but definitely not the worst. May they rest in peace.

Don't you mean Nancy Reagan's astrologer was a pretty decent president?

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#237

Post by Ferret7446 »

user_7832 wrote: post #117
hattmall wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer to suffer through something like cancer, fully aware of your decline and unable to do anything but with the will to do so? Or just be completely unaware of what is going on but not necessarily in poor health? Dementia is certainly terrible in a unique and disturbing way for the afflicted and people that care about them, but Im not so sure some of the more understandable alternatives would be preferab…

If you're asking what's worse, body dying with a a good mind, or mind dying eg in dementia but good body, the answer is almost 100% the latter being worse. I know someone who had Alzheimer's. Was in excellent physical shape, had biomarkers of someone 20 years younger. Would go for daily walks for decades, consistently did yoga etc. The issue, with late stage Alzheimer's (and possibly dementia in general), is that the…

Worse for whom? The latter seems a lot less distressing for the subject (assuming you have the "blissful ignorance" dementia and not "constant fear" dementia"), the former sounds like a novel form of torture.

There's a reason we sedate people undergoing most medical operations.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#238

Post by Ferret7446 »

pizzafeelsright wrote: post #52
jjice wrote: post #34

This story is part of the reason I'd never want to know about where I land intelligence wise compared to other people. No matter the outcome, I don't think it could be good. I it's below average, I'll feel limited. If it's above average, I'll have added pressure of self expectations and maybe arrogance. That's not the case for everyone, but I'm happy where I am currently. Back to the story - the use of grammar and sp…

I discovered that intelligence is like height. It helps with the ability to reach but effort matters more. I was lazy for twenty years and put effort behind the wrong energy. If I understood risk, consistent effort, and emotions better, I would have retired in my mid twenties.

Unfortunately my experience disagrees. Past a certain threshold, effort does indeed matter more, but most people don't meet that threshold.

If you're here, then there's a good chance you're in a social bubble where you rarely interact with people below that threshold.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#239

Post by darkwizard42 »

trylfthsk wrote: post #61
keiferski wrote: post #47

It's interesting to compare this story to the movie Limitless , which has a fairly similar premise, but ends on a positive note. Algernon seems to have more influence, probably because of it is fundamentally a kind of morality tale, but I actually kind of prefer Limitless, [0] as limited as its plot is. There is something motivational about it, which is probably why there are so many YouTube productivity videos with…

Can also recommend the Ted Chiang story Understand [1], which adds in a dash of The Most Dangerous Game . [1] https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?40835

I actually found this story from a previous HN thread and was absolutely blown away. Such an excellent short story.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#240

Post by lapetitejort »

pc86 wrote: post #178
nanolith wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, someone who would thoroughly test such a system and formally verify it long before use, as it would literally be a life or death thing...

Oh right we'll just "formally verify it," all good then!

It works on my brain
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