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Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

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Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#251

Post by jameshart »

flightster wrote: post #152

Cooling by a degree takes less energy than heating by a degree (not to mention it's electric). Cooling a house from 35 (outside) to 23 (inside) takes is better for "the environment" than heating one from 11 to 23.

What’s the basis for this claim?

Maintaining a fixed temperature difference across a wall with a fixed thermal conductivity takes the same amount of energy no matter which side of the wall you want to keep the heat.

On the other hand, any inefficiencies in your heat transfer capability, any incoming solar radiation, and any other activity going on inside a space (like lighting, cooking or refrigeration, or just people metabolizing their breakfast) tend to add heat to it.

So maintaining a cooler temperature on the side where you’re trying to do stuff seems likely to be more inefficient than heating it.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#252

Post by coldtea »

carlosjobim wrote: post #214
coldtea wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can build passive structures to regulate peak temperatures - caves and windowless insulated boxes with high thermal mass, for instance. As long as the average temperatures (day and night) over a few days or a week are survivable, active cooling isn't strictly necessary. Survival is a consolation, but if we need to start living in caves and windowless insulated boxes, then those are not very reassuring news...

Make a visit to one of the cold-as-hell regions of the world and take a look at how traditional houses look. Window sizes, wall thickness. Look at the energy usage needed to survive the climate. If people organise themselves, they can both survive and thrive in extreme conditions. Even just as isolated individuals. Regions with high humidity and high temperatures also have huge rivers and waterfalls for cooling, irri…

>If people organise themselves, they can both survive and thrive in extreme conditions. Even just as isolated individuals.

You mean like Siberia and Alaska are "thriving"?

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#253

Post by coldtea »

stephenitis wrote: post #212
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entirely obvious for anyone living in a city that both heat and the full moon have a tangible effect on that.

full moon? citation needed please

Here's one:

"The incidence of crimes reported to three police stations in different towns (one rural, one urban, one industrial) was studied to see if it varied with the day of the lunar cycle. The period of the study covered 1978-82. The incidence of crimes committed on full moon days was much higher than on all other days, new moon days, and seventh days after the full moon and new moon".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1444800/

And here's a different take from Finland:

"Conclusions Contrary to current scientific opinion, an association exists between moon phases and homicides, and contrary to what has been previously assumed, homicides declined during the full moon, especially in earlier decades. However, the causality of the association remains elusive"

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/1/e022759

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#254

Post by mistermann »

adrianN wrote: post #235
mistermann wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "actionable" makes assumptions about the true nature of several things, one of them being democracy. I can make a semi -actionable plan to fly, but if I am not able to achieve flight via the plan, in fact, my plan is not fully actionable, so this fully part is a pretty big deal. What if you people are wrong? Like, what is it about certain topics that cause having backup plans to be a bad idea? Why are there cert…

By your definition plans can only be determined to be actionable post hoc after they are completed?

Risk can be predicted/estimated, for example:

> If only everyone voted for parties who don't deny science...

So here we have a prediction of risk, that itself contains non-disclosed/perceived risk.

We are welcome to behave however we'd like of course, and we will be rewarded accordingly. Some people like to put their/our faith (which is what it is) in one basket, others like to have a multi-prong, layered approach.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#255

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

MisterTea wrote: post #176
bongodongobob wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allergic to air conditioning? I don't understand.

AC's tend to build up a lot of mold which grows in the condensation and blows it around. People with sinus and allergy issues get stuffy and inflamed. This is why I avoid using the AC and prefer a fan along with opening a window.

ACs tend to dehumidify the interior space. If they're properly installed all the condensation will drain outside. For window-mount ACs, you may need to shim them to get them to sit at the correct angle. For split ACs, the drain tube needs to be angled to allow water to flow out through the wall.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#256

Post by ponector »

ImHereToVote wrote: post #145
ponector wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who should pay for it? No one really wants to spend money on something like that. People don't want to spend 0.1% of GDP to help survive people in Ukraine and you think they care how hot is there for the people of Australia?

Is there any evidence to support the case that sending more weapons to Ukraine will spare lives? If so. Shouldn't we prioritize sending weapons to the people of Gaza first, since their casualty numbers are much higher?

It depends on do you want to send weapons to terrorists or not.

Sending long range weapons together with F-16 can help to destroy missiles and other long range weapons Russian terrorists use daily on Ukrainian cities.

By sending enough 155cm shells Russian advance could be stopped, which mean less cities will be grounded. Because that is the only way Russian occupational army could advance: by total destruction of everything.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#257

Post by carlosjobim »

coldtea wrote: post #252
carlosjobim wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make a visit to one of the cold-as-hell regions of the world and take a look at how traditional houses look. Window sizes, wall thickness. Look at the energy usage needed to survive the climate. If people organise themselves, they can both survive and thrive in extreme conditions. Even just as isolated individuals. Regions with high humidity and high temperatures also have huge rivers and waterfalls for cooling, irri…

> If people organise themselves, they can both survive and thrive in extreme conditions. Even just as isolated individuals. You mean like Siberia and Alaska are "thriving"?

I've never been there, so I wouldn't know. They're doing pretty well from what I've heard. How about Norway? How about Ontario or Minnesota?

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#258

Post by Jensson »

moffkalast wrote: post #210
adrianN wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aerosol injection is not very expensive.

On a planetary scale, literally everything is very expensive.

It is cheap enough that a single rich dude could cause another ice age, it isn't very expensive.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#259

Post by jijijijij »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #144
donatj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a rag of cold water on you will cool you regardless of evaporation. It is a thing that is cooler than the environment. The water from our taps at least is a pretty constant like 50°F

Because Minnesota is a cold place. Many of the places where 'wet bulb' events are most likely to happen have only hot water available. The tap water in Phoenix can exceed 100 degrees, people will fill a bathtub in the morning so their home A/C and evaporation will cool it off by the evening. Even river water in India or Southeast Asia can exceed 100 degrees. There is no cold water to wet the rag with unless you have…

> The tap water in Phoenix can exceed 100 degrees, people will fill a bathtub in the morning so their home A/C and evaporation will cool it off by the evening.

Eww! They probably have chlorine in their water, huh? I imagine, otherwise the microbial game would be out of control.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#260

Post by dreamcompiler »

donatj wrote: post #31
cromulent wrote: post #2

A friend of mine who lives in Queensland (Sunshine Coast) was talking about a recent spell of 32° and 100% humidity and how oppressive it was. My understanding is that such weather is not survivable long term [1] without air conditioning. A power failure would be disastrous. [1] https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-t...

I grew up poor and without AC in Minnesota where we regularly get spells of 100°F+ (37.7°C) at VERY high humidity thanks to all the lakes. It’s survivable, it’s absolutely not pleasant though and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Fans and wet rags help some. I used to fill a 2-liter bottle with cold water and hold it against my chest. A lot of sleepless nights. When we got a local second run $2 movie theater, it was a li…

You are talking about Minnesota but your description is identical to that of Atlanta, Houston, and any number of other southeastern US cities during the first half of the 20th century. A/C became widespread in the US first in the South, because it made indoor work possible in the afternoons. During that time (first half of 20th century), Northerners still considered A/C optional because the hot season was relatively short. A/C has been considered non-optional in the American South for the last 50 years. (In fact, I often find that when I visit the South in the summer I need to bring a sweater because it's not uncommon for indoor spaces to be ridiculously cool.)

Those days are over. Now Minnesota is like Atlanta in 1950, and Atlanta in the summer is now dangerous. Phoenix in summer is now deadly. A/C is a life-and-death issue in the southern half of the US (unless you're on top of a high mountain). A long absence of A/C in those places will kill you, and I don't mean figuratively.

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