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Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

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Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#191

Post by Analemma_ »

nanolith wrote: post #107
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

I'm of the belief that in such a situation, a pre-cognitive decline "living will" or dead man switch is appropriate. If I were diagnosed with dementia, I'd build automation to ensure that I'd appear to die a natural death when I enter the steep slope of cognitive decline. It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxi…

That's fine in theory, but the problem is that many, possibly most, Alzheimer's patients report that they are happy and don't want to die, even well into severe cases. Whose preference should get priority, past you or present you? Maybe the internal experience of severe Alzheimer's isn't as bad as you are imagining, but if your living will is ironclad, by the time you realize that you'd have no way to signal it, and so you just get murdered.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#192

Post by archagon »

gmadsen wrote: post #39
jjice wrote: post #34

This story is part of the reason I'd never want to know about where I land intelligence wise compared to other people. No matter the outcome, I don't think it could be good. I it's below average, I'll feel limited. If it's above average, I'll have added pressure of self expectations and maybe arrogance. That's not the case for everyone, but I'm happy where I am currently. Back to the story - the use of grammar and sp…

How is that possible to not know? Have you never worked on a team?

Whenever I work with someone more insightful and effective than me, I'm compelled to do better and get closer to their level. I've never had the thought that they must be more intrinsically intelligent.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#193

Post by archagon »

jjice wrote: post #34

This story is part of the reason I'd never want to know about where I land intelligence wise compared to other people. No matter the outcome, I don't think it could be good. I it's below average, I'll feel limited. If it's above average, I'll have added pressure of self expectations and maybe arrogance. That's not the case for everyone, but I'm happy where I am currently. Back to the story - the use of grammar and sp…

This is precisely why I will never take an IQ test.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#194

Post by dmd »

fairity wrote: post #149
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

Too many of us are attached to our intelligence. I love this story bc it's a reminder that we should value personal excellence over intelligence. By personal excellence I mean making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we all lose our mental faculties. If we value intelligence, in and of itself,…

> With old age, we all lose our mental faculties.

What? No. That is not at all true. Nearly all of my relatives - other than the one who had alzheimers - were as sharp as ever up until they died.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#195

Post by metalliqaz »

lainga wrote: post #166
foobarian wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

cf. the many elderly who volunteered to clean up at Fukushima

I don't think they expected to die from it, though. More so that they knew they would die of old age before they could develop cancer from it.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#196

Post by roflyear »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #189
msgilligan wrote: post #126

"I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life." Regardless of one's political opinion of Ronald Reagan, his letter announcing his Alzheimer's diagnosis is relevant and poignant. https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/reagans/ronald-reagan/reagans-...

Careful there... NOTICE WARNING CONCERNING THE REPRODUCTION OF THIS LETTER The Reagan Library is authorized to make copies of this letter available only for the purpose of private study, scholarship or research. This letter may not be reproduced for publication without the expressed consent of the personal representative of Ronald Reagan. For more information contact: Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation 40 Presiden…

What are you saying? It is on the internet, it's fine to link to public sites...

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#198

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

foobarian wrote: post #161
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

Maybe Spock was just playing the long game. Knew he would be resurrected by space magic and get to pon farr with the rescue party.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#199

Post by markdog12 »

trylfthsk wrote: post #61
keiferski wrote: post #47

It's interesting to compare this story to the movie Limitless , which has a fairly similar premise, but ends on a positive note. Algernon seems to have more influence, probably because of it is fundamentally a kind of morality tale, but I actually kind of prefer Limitless, [0] as limited as its plot is. There is something motivational about it, which is probably why there are so many YouTube productivity videos with…

Can also recommend the Ted Chiang story Understand [1], which adds in a dash of The Most Dangerous Game . [1] https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?40835

Incredible story. Would love if anyone has any similar recommendations.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#200

Post by markdog12 »

havblue wrote: post #119
keiferski wrote: post #47

It's interesting to compare this story to the movie Limitless , which has a fairly similar premise, but ends on a positive note. Algernon seems to have more influence, probably because of it is fundamentally a kind of morality tale, but I actually kind of prefer Limitless, [0] as limited as its plot is. There is something motivational about it, which is probably why there are so many YouTube productivity videos with…

There's also a great Star Trek episode, the Nth Degree, where Barclay becomes the smartest man alive. The cast is typically annoyed with him so it's great to see the looks of admiration in their faces as he's suddenly able to solve engineering problems faster than Data, brings Beverly to tears in an acting scene they perform together and is confident enough to "make a pass" at Troi.

By far the best episode, IMO.
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