Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

sdfo.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 272 posts

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#161

Post by foobarian »

klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#162

Post by alexpetralia »

the-chitmonger wrote: post #72
Zealotux wrote: post #12

The first book I couldn't put down and had to read in one sitting. It may be the origin of my fear of mental decline, which is much more horrific than death to me.

Hard agree - this book inspired a fear in me that led me to seek every possible preventative method to combat dementia or other neurodegenerative diseases. In case anyone wants to see my (admittedly amateur) research, I've listed some things I've found below. - Exercise regularly and mitigate conditions like diabetes, hypertension*, high cholesterol [1] (aerobic exercise seems to be the best for this, likely because…

I am surprised nothing about sociality shows up in your list.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#163

Post by mrexroad »

mrexroad wrote: post #151
vouaobrasil wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I wish I could have been born in a world where I could use my skills for survival in the forests and die younger but have a more fulfilling life. Modern technological society is a disappointment, even if I am more comfortable.

Do you do any outdoors activities? One thing I’ve learned over the years, and was somewhat surprised by, is that I find type-II outdoor fun more fulfilling than my hobbies or work. For me, it’s a mix of 1) nature is awesome and indifferently brutal af, 2) having/improvising/gaining knowledge and skills to handle situations you haven’t before, and 3) pushing yourself physically beyond some limit. I don’t like exercisi…

Maybe I replied too hastily. I reread your comment and it seems you lament intertwined societal/technological changes rather than simply wishing to spend more time hanging out with the trees.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#164

Post by myth2018 »

mrexroad wrote: post #139
sorokod wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charlie's trajectory may be your trajectory, not as an allegory. You may be that average person.

s/allegory/analogy/ It may just be a side effect of my dyslexia coping, but I read it as ‘analogy’ until reading your comment. Even then, I’m am pretty sure everyone knew they meant ‘analogy’ and just moved on. It’s okay to point out mistakes, but please be civil when doing so.

Hi, but I meant allegory indeed.

According to Wiktionary:

- (rhetoric) A narrative in which a character, place, or event is used to deliver a broader message about real-world issues and occurrences.

- A picture, book, or other form of communication using such representation.

- A symbolic representation which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, usually a moral or political one.

He might have been triggered by my use of "average". I realize it now that it may not have been adequate, sorry for that, English is not my first language.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#165

Post by abraxas »

ajmurmann wrote: post #148
abraxas wrote: post #65

This is the original short story. I recommend that people read the full book instead or at least read the book first to avoid spoilers. It's at least as good as the short story but expands on the ideas and the story line significantly.

Does the book add significant new ideas or is it just more explicit about the consequences? I generally love scifi for the ideas much more so than for story and am torn between the book and the short story.

The main thrust of the story (the main sci-fi component) is contained in both. But it is fleshed out better in the full book. However, neither is a story that contains a ton of novel Sci-Fi ideas. For that I would direct you to stories and books by Greg Egan.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#166

Post by lainga »

foobarian wrote: post #161
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

cf. the many elderly who volunteered to clean up at Fukushima

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#167

Post by the-chitmonger »

alexpetralia wrote: post #162
the-chitmonger wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard agree - this book inspired a fear in me that led me to seek every possible preventative method to combat dementia or other neurodegenerative diseases. In case anyone wants to see my (admittedly amateur) research, I've listed some things I've found below. - Exercise regularly and mitigate conditions like diabetes, hypertension*, high cholesterol [1] (aerobic exercise seems to be the best for this, likely because…

I am surprised nothing about sociality shows up in your list.

Embarrassed to admit it, but I was a bit tunnel-visioned on what I could accomplish on my own to minimize the risk of neurodegenerative disease. I did a cursory search and found some articles [1][2] highlighting a similar benefit to continued learning/brain exercises (increased cognitive reserve, which may not necessarily reduce the risk of developing dementia but should slow its onset considerably).

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43587-023-00387-0

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3038528/

Edited for clarity

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#168

Post by criddell »

Ntrails wrote: post #125
user_7832 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're asking what's worse, body dying with a a good mind, or mind dying eg in dementia but good body, the answer is almost 100% the latter being worse. I know someone who had Alzheimer's. Was in excellent physical shape, had biomarkers of someone 20 years younger. Would go for daily walks for decades, consistently did yoga etc. The issue, with late stage Alzheimer's (and possibly dementia in general), is that the…

> It's far from "living with dignity", even if the body is still physically capable. It would be abhorrent if you understood what was going on, but if you did you wouldn't be in that state. I'm not sure whether in general terms Dementia is as traumatic for the sufferer as the observer who attaches value to a historical person (who for all intents and purposes is gone )

My dad died with Lewy Body Dementia and it was absolutely terrible. He was hallucinating terrible things and would be up all night terrified.

I called him once when he was in the hospital and had to be restrained. He begged me to come get him because he thought he had been kidnapped and was being held in a barn somewhere. There was no convincing him that the people around him were doctors and nurses who were trying to help him.

After I told him I couldn't come (I was in another country at the time) he begged me to call the police. By the end of the call he told me the barn was on fire and he was going to burn alive. It was enough to convince me that I needed to be in control of when and how I die.

My dad had no idea what was going on and he was 100x worse for it.

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#169

Post by vouaobrasil »

mrexroad wrote: post #151
vouaobrasil wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I wish I could have been born in a world where I could use my skills for survival in the forests and die younger but have a more fulfilling life. Modern technological society is a disappointment, even if I am more comfortable.

Do you do any outdoors activities? One thing I’ve learned over the years, and was somewhat surprised by, is that I find type-II outdoor fun more fulfilling than my hobbies or work. For me, it’s a mix of 1) nature is awesome and indifferently brutal af, 2) having/improvising/gaining knowledge and skills to handle situations you haven’t before, and 3) pushing yourself physically beyond some limit. I don’t like exercisi…

I do lots. I spend every second I can outdoors, and I'm a wildlife photographer also...

Re: Flowers for Algernon (1965) [pdf]

#170

Post by credit_guy »

nanolith wrote: post #107
klibertp wrote: post #93

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I do…

I'm of the belief that in such a situation, a pre-cognitive decline "living will" or dead man switch is appropriate. If I were diagnosed with dementia, I'd build automation to ensure that I'd appear to die a natural death when I enter the steep slope of cognitive decline. It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxi…

> It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin

You appear to me to be the type who never writes any bugs in their code.

Post reply on HN