gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#1

Post by freediver » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:21 PM UTC

gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL
github.com

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#2

Post by helsinki » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:42 PM UTC

While the title is correct, it is a bit misleading, because disabling the GIL breaks the asyncio tests. It's like saying the engine can be removed from my car. Sure, it can, but the car won't work.

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#3

Post by Retr0id » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:44 PM UTC

Is there a good overview of the bigger picture here?

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#4

Post by gtirloni » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:45 PM UTC

Retr0id wrote: post #3

Is there a good overview of the bigger picture here?

https://peps.python.org/pep-0703/

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#5

Post by TylerE » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:45 PM UTC

helsinki wrote: post #2

While the title is correct, it is a bit misleading, because disabling the GIL breaks the asyncio tests. It's like saying the engine can be removed from my car. Sure, it can, but the car won't work.

This comment feels very disingenuous because non-threaded programs do in fact work.

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#6

Post by ollien » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:46 PM UTC

helsinki wrote: post #2

While the title is correct, it is a bit misleading, because disabling the GIL breaks the asyncio tests. It's like saying the engine can be removed from my car. Sure, it can, but the car won't work.

I mean, you're not wrong, but also it's a huge feat to provide a toggle for a major feature like the GIL. Though, if it's just asyncio that's broken, perhaps it's not like removing your engine, but rather your antilock brakes :)

EDIT:

> [the test synchronous programs] all seem to run fine, and very basic threaded programs work, sometimes

Perhaps this is closer to removing the oil pan

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#7

Post by Kranar » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:47 PM UTC

helsinki wrote: post #2

While the title is correct, it is a bit misleading, because disabling the GIL breaks the asyncio tests. It's like saying the engine can be removed from my car. Sure, it can, but the car won't work.

Well this release will break any code that uses threads. The goal of this particular release is to work for thread-free programs.

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#8

Post by ollien » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:49 PM UTC

Kranar wrote: post #7

helsinki wrote: post #2

While the title is correct, it is a bit misleading, because disabling the GIL breaks the asyncio tests. It's like saying the engine can be removed from my car. Sure, it can, but the car won't work.

Well this release will break any code that uses threads. The goal of this particular release is to work for thread-free programs.

How do single-threaded programs benefit from a lack of GIL?

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#9

Post by protomikron » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

Although this is nice, the problems with the GIL are often blown out of proportion: people stating that you couldn't do efficient (compute-bounded) multi-processing, which was never the case as the `multiprocessing` module works just fine.

Re: gh-116167: Allow disabling the GIL

#10

Post by dvas » Mon, Mar 11, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

Extra links for the no gil work for anyone else curious about this [0], [1].

[0] Multithreaded Python without the GIL https://docs.google.com/document/d/18CXhDb1ygxg-YXNBJNzfzZsD...

[1] Github repo https://github.com/colesbury/nogil