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Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#101

Post by elevenones »

(From the Toyota Connected Services Disclaimer)

Your Responsibilities

    Your responsibilities include: (1) informing passengers and drivers of your vehicle that data is collected and used by us, and (2) notifying us of a sale or transfer of your vehicle. If you do not notify us of a sale or transfer, we may continue to send data about the vehicle to the subscriber's Account Information currently on file, and we are not responsible for any privacy related damages you suffer.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#102

Post by prometheus76 »

I called to turn off the data in a Toyota, and the guy wanted my name, phone number, email address, physical address and even more I can't remember right now. I was like "why do you need this info?" He said, "We need a record of who made this request for our records." I told him "do you understand that I am calling your company specifically because I don't want you to have records?" This went round and round about three times before I just gave him fake info.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#103

Post by beej71 »

batch12 wrote: post #13

When I got my last car, it had a sticker instructing me to press the SOS button to opt out of data collection. The gentleman that answered acted confused when I made the request, taking the stance that he wasn't aware of data collection from the car and maybe I should contact the manufacturer. It was only after I read him the sticker text verbatim that he went into a scripted response and confirmed the opt out. Shady…

I was looking at the Prius Prime for a next car--thanks for the heads-up!

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#104

Post by beej71 »

mycologos wrote: post #59

I think there are a few reasons to be mad about this, but some are better than others: 1) People don't understand they're being monitored. I think this is a good reason to be mad. People should have some understanding of the agreements they make. It's part of being a functional adult in the world. It's also annoying that the companies keep spinning this as a tool to improve your driving, when it's clearly an attempt…

I've avoided accidents by hard breaking twice in the last two years, once from deer bounding into the road, and once from a deaf old cat walking into the street.

I haven't been cited for anything in decades, and have never been in an at-fault accident. I drive the speed limit and have a dashcam. With the deer, I was actually 10 MPH under the limit.

So should my rates go up for these incidents where I successfully avoided hitting something? Insurers are unscrupulous and would use any excuse.

No, thanks. I'll share nothing.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#105

Post by salawat »

mycologos wrote: post #59

I think there are a few reasons to be mad about this, but some are better than others: 1) People don't understand they're being monitored. I think this is a good reason to be mad. People should have some understanding of the agreements they make. It's part of being a functional adult in the world. It's also annoying that the companies keep spinning this as a tool to improve your driving, when it's clearly an attempt…

>People should have some understanding of the agreements they make.

People do not engage in meetings of the minds on these types of things. Manufacturers/insurance companies enter into agreements (and leave stickers that are unlikely to be read) which is a clear violation (imo) of contract law.

It's one thing to be aware of agreements you make, it is another to navigate a corporate surveillance hellscape of on by default consentless surveillance a bunch of psychopayhic corporate types greenlit.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#106

Post by beej71 »

moooo99 wrote: post #66

I‘m a huge fan of s telemetry insurance. I have I personally and it saves me around 300€/year on my cars insurance because I am a very defensive driver. However, this being integrated into the vehicle in an absolutely intransparent way is a huge step up and a really unsettling privacy violation. For this to be ethically viable imho, there need to be a few prerequisites - it’s transparent what has been transmitted - y…

I'd be a fan, too, if they couldn't use the information to raise rates. But even the best drivers brake hard to avoid accidents from time to time, and in the US, insurers are dirty.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#107

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #87
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're describing what should be, not what is.

No, I was asking about this statement which I assume wasn't hypothetical: > I have I personally and it saves me around 300€/year on my cars insurance because I am a very defensive driver.

gotcha, I misunderstood.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#108

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

prometheus76 wrote: post #102

I called to turn off the data in a Toyota, and the guy wanted my name, phone number, email address, physical address and even more I can't remember right now. I was like "why do you need this info?" He said, "We need a record of who made this request for our records." I told him "do you understand that I am calling your company specifically because I don't want you to have records?" This went round and round about th…

Were you able to obtain any records of your own where they agree to cease collection that you can hold against them if they continue? Do you have any means of verifying that the collection has ceased? I don't believe that their word means much without these.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#109

Post by everforward »

schreiaj wrote: post #92
everforward wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Location can be relevant. There is both a quarter mile drag strip by me and a circuit lap by me that both allow you to drive your own car on them. Both styles of driving would be... Alarming from a telemetry perspective. Afaik neither is covered by regular auto insurance anyways so it really shouldn't factor into rates. There's specific racing insurance, but it's quite pricey. Not that I want them sharing location da…

It’s also difficult to determine if someone is speeding from data. For example the road I live off of according to the speed limit the car thinks goes from 40 to 65 to 25 to 65 to 40 in about a 4 mile span. Spoiler it does not. It is 40 the whole way. But according to the car I am either going 25 under, 15 over, or exactly the right speed. (And the 65 section in the middle? Blind corner. Idk where it’s getting its da…

Indeed, the usual garbage in garbage out issue.

Iirc, though, I think I read something about this and they were more interested in average speed (regardless of posted speed), and the rate/frequency of acceleration/deceleration (especially deceleration).

The idea being that speed increases accident severity, regardless of posted speeds. Rapid deceleration is indicative of reacting late to something you should have seen and responded to earlier (eg following too closely and having to slam the brakes, not seeing someone merging, not slowing down for a yellow light, etc).

Basically that a safe driver would have a fairly smooth acceleration/deceleration profile because they're aware of what's happening around them and pre-plan accordingly. If someone wants to merge in, give them room and then back up enough that you can brake slowly if something happens.

I still don't want to be tracked, but their metrics seemed sane at first pass.

Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies

#110

Post by matheusmoreira »

elevenones wrote: post #101

(From the Toyota Connected Services Disclaimer) Your Responsibilities Your responsibilities include: (1) informing passengers and drivers of your vehicle that data is collected and used by us, and (2) notifying us of a sale or transfer of your vehicle. If you do not notify us of a sale or transfer, we may continue to send data about the vehicle to the subscriber's Account Information currently on file, and we are not…

This needs to be illegal.
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