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Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

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Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#131

Post by jijijijij »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #96
sgu999 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the plot of the Ministry for the Future [0]. Power failure during a prolonged wet bulb temperature above 35°C, millions of dead. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ministry_for_the_Future

Which is why we need a home solar revolution. The grid is going to have to undergo huge evolution, but increasingly corruption and political gridlock make that unreliable. Plus home solar empowers you from centralized control and functions as the only free market alternative to the regulatory captured grid infrastructure. Home storage with sodium ion and hopefully in 2-4 years sodium sulfur will drop costs 50%. Also,…

Yes. Also radiative cooling. Lawns literally suck here too, we need more trees and bushes, biomass fixation, in personal homes, for shade and drought resistance. And massive, diverse reforestation to replete ground water reserves and stabilize the local weather.

We also need to massively invest in poor countries' ability to survive too. Or else conflicts will spread to us regardless of our own resilience.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#132

Post by richrichie »

cromulent wrote: post #2

A friend of mine who lives in Queensland (Sunshine Coast) was talking about a recent spell of 32° and 100% humidity and how oppressive it was. My understanding is that such weather is not survivable long term [1] without air conditioning. A power failure would be disastrous. [1] https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-t...

32 deg C is a mild summer in many parts of the world and most of that world does not have 24/7 electricity, even from coal.

Incidentally, pro tennis players descend in Melbourne during the peak of Australian summer and play best of 5 sets (men) in the heat where temperatures reach high forties (deg C) and even fifties.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#133

Post by JumpCrisscross »

brabel wrote: post #80
ethanbond wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the temperature being described here is extremely lethal within hours even to heat-adapted people.

While you're correct, I suppose that people who live in already warm areas with high humidity to tend to build more resistance, and would be the "last to die" compared to people from, say, Europe.

> people who live in already warm areas with high humidity to tend to build more resistance

There is no resistance to chemistry. Your proteins stop folding properly above a certain temperature. Others irreversibly change shape, like an egg’s albumen solidifying. Your body expends extraordinary effort to keep its temperature in a narrow range, one far from the outside temperature, for good reason.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#134

Post by ido »

chasil wrote: post #111
jijijijij wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to think about, is how poorly developed, rural places, without ACs or stable grids , are much more likely to experience heat waves with universally fatal wet-bulb temperatures. Places like parts of India or Bangladesh with high population densities, too. Further more, I think, we also need to consider how non-survivable conditions to humans, may play out for other animals we depend on. The cows, chicken, sh…

As opposed to our current icehouse phase, plants have thrived during intense greenhouse periods of global climate. "Earth has been in a greenhouse state for about 85% of its history... Earth is now in an icehouse state, and ice sheets are present in both poles simultaneously." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_and_icehouse_Eart...

Did the livestock and cultivated plants we depend on for food exist during the greenhouse states? Did humans? There’s no doubt the earth and life will survive, but our civilization may see extreme turbulence (100s of millions of people dying). How much turbulence before our sophisticated society collapses? We don't know for sure but I rather not find out.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#135

Post by _heimdall »

moffkalast wrote: post #121
_heimdall wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before we start filling our atmosphere with theoretical solutions, shouldn't we reduce as much of emissions and consumption and possible? We humans consume an insane amount of natural resources. We have built many of our societies around global interdependence. We produce a constant flood of stuff that is consumed quickly and discarded. We could make a big impact simply shifting to more local economies. For example,…

Frankly it's not one or the other, it's both at the same time as much as possible because we're extremely late to this party.

How do we control that? The medical industry has the challenge of having to intervene to a late stage illness with multiple interventions that must be titrated appropriately. They have the benefit of a much smaller scale though, and they've researched and learned from past cases.

How do we intervene in the entire planet with multiple modes of change without making things worse?

I reach for the solution of removing impact as much as possible mainly because it feels much safer. We can reduce our current level of impact and we're really just getting out of the planets way. There's plenty of risk with regards to human cost as we remove and simplify systems, but at least that's the impact falling more directly in the species that caused the problem in the first place.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#136

Post by richrichie »

jijijijij wrote: post #68
donatj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up poor and without AC in Minnesota where we regularly get spells of 100°F+ (37.7°C) at VERY high humidity thanks to all the lakes. It’s survivable, it’s absolutely not pleasant though and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. Fans and wet rags help some. I used to fill a 2-liter bottle with cold water and hold it against my chest. A lot of sleepless nights. When we got a local second run $2 movie theater, it was a li…

You do not understand the issue at hand. Whatever you experienced was way less severe, because evaporative cooling obviously was still possible. There is a point where you simply cannot cool yourself passively. That's the point where survival is at risk regardless of health. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature

Heat is far more easily managed than -20 deg C. Cold deaths being far more than heat deaths proves that point as well.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#137

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jessekv wrote: post #81

Countries stock up on masks to prepare for future pandemics. What can/do they stock up on to prepare for extended heat waves? Ground water reserves? Generators and fuel? Underground shelters?

> What can/do they stock up on to prepare for extended heat waves?

Power.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#138

Post by thworp »

rapnie wrote: post #128
thworp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is text taken from a popular cartoon [0], with some stuff added by the OP. [0] https://ifunny.co/picture/yes-the-planet-got-destroyed-but-f...

Oh god, there is another one of these further down the thread. I go to HN to escape the brainless quoters/referencers, let it stop please.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#139

Post by janice1999 »

chasil wrote: post #111
jijijijij wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to think about, is how poorly developed, rural places, without ACs or stable grids , are much more likely to experience heat waves with universally fatal wet-bulb temperatures. Places like parts of India or Bangladesh with high population densities, too. Further more, I think, we also need to consider how non-survivable conditions to humans, may play out for other animals we depend on. The cows, chicken, sh…

As opposed to our current icehouse phase, plants have thrived during intense greenhouse periods of global climate. "Earth has been in a greenhouse state for about 85% of its history... Earth is now in an icehouse state, and ice sheets are present in both poles simultaneously." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_and_icehouse_Eart...

Crops need water, stable climates and human intervention. Global heating is driving desertification, droughts and more extreme weather events.

Re: Humanity Is Dangerously Pushing Its Ability to Tolerate Heat

#140

Post by adrianN »

mistermann wrote: post #113
adrianN wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only everyone voted for parties who don't deny science...

Ah yes, our two most sacred institutions: democracy and science, neither of which have a (literally) actionable plan to solve the problem at its source: human behavior. The twin hills that humanity may die on if something doesn't happen to wake people up to their foolishness.

We have a large number of actionable plans that happen to reduce profits for very rich organizations that hence spend a lot of money to prevent their implementation.
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