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Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

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Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#31

Post by waterlesscloud »

zzuser wrote: post #29
waterlesscloud wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not. Finland has vast, vast areas with no one. Texas has people thinly spread throughout. You can cover only parts of Finland, because people only live in parts of Finland. You have to cover pretty much all of Texas. So, once again, the size of Texas is a negative factor. The so-called "average density" is not the key factor here, the amount of fiber you have to lay to reach everyone is.

The above is an invalid comparison. A better, more objective measure is linear population density. Miles of roads in Texas: 152,054 miles Miles of roads in Finland: 65,617 miles ( ) Population of Texas: 25,674,681 Population of Finland: 5,375,276 Linear population density of Texas: ~169 persons per miles of road Linear population density of Finland: ~82 persons per miles of road Ergo, it is cheaper per head to provid…

This really isn't a good measure since roads will be denser in urban areas and less dense in rural areas, thus leading to exactly the same issues as directly using population density.

But beside that, the public road mileage for Texas is off by a factor of two. This DOT document lists 303,176 miles of public road in Texas. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/ohim/hs04/htm/hm10.htm

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#32

Post by dsrguru »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #6
TomGullen wrote: post #2

1MB as a legal right seems a little dubious, 100MB as a legal right seems even more dubious. I understand that having access to the Internet is an important thing for numerous reasons, but why the arbitrary speeds? What benefits does a 100MB connection offer over a 1MB connection? You can enjoy engage and benefit from the vast majority of important stuff on the Internet with a 250kb connection.

It's 1 Mb not 1 MB.

While it bugs me, I understand that from an ISP's point of view, it makes sense to use whatever plausible-ish unit will let you post the highest number, even if that unit is way less practical for thinking in (any download large enough to be affected by connection speed is going to be thought of by the person downloading in terms of bytes, not bits). Also, if an ISP doesn't do that, everyone else will, and they'll be the loser in a prisoner's dilemma. However, what really bugs me is when third parties (e.g. the Finish government) perpetuate the inferior standard, which arose as a marketing ploy, for no apparent reason other than maybe ignorance. It's bad enough that we still don't really use the metric system outside of science in the United States, and it's cost us a fair amount of money in incorrect conversions. However, with MBps and Mbps, most laypeople and possibly some Finish government officials don't even realize that there are two systems, one of which is almost an order of magnitude larger.

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#33

Post by glaze »

AlisdairO wrote: post #30
glaze wrote: post #27

This cannot be implemented without violating property rights, so it's morally wrong. The state should protect people's rights, not take them away.

Maybe the Finns have a different idea of what makes a good society than you?

As a Finn, I don't like the idea that other people can vote to take away some individual's rights, in this case, ISP's.

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#34

Post by Juha »

I think defining broadband access like this allows them to move certain legally required things to the internet age. I believe there are a lot of small laws in Finland that say what the radio channel, newspaper or Tv channel should provide. For example we actually have a law that during icehockey World Championships our own matches should be broadcasted for free.

If enough people legally have access to a broadband internet, its easier to make laws to offering certain services through the internet (certain information delivery, services like taxes and maybe voting in the future).

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#35

Post by tree_of_item »

46Bit wrote: post #19
paulhauggis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Addressing it as a common need and making sure that everyone can accesses it is not inherently unreasonable." There are public libraries in nearly every city with free Internet access.

Where you often struggle to get enough time to do anything - even if you're willing to trust the machines to not be compromised. There's a fantastic article from a librarian on the topic of helping people to use library computers and the problems users have, although a quick hunt doesn't seem to turn it up - anyone?

http://www.metafilter.com/112698/California-Dreamin#4183210

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#38

Post by Cobrian »

glaze wrote: post #33
AlisdairO wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the Finns have a different idea of what makes a good society than you?

As a Finn, I don't like the idea that other people can vote to take away some individual's rights, in this case, ISP's.

As a fellow Finn, I don't consider an ISP to be a person, but rather a service provider, and as such I'm fine with the concept of (some of them) being forced to have obligations rather than just the right to take our money.

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#39

Post by Joakal »

paulhauggis wrote: post #15
Natsu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is becoming more and more necessary over time. Addressing it as a common need and making sure that everyone can accesses it is not inherently unreasonable. Questions of "rights" devolve into discussions of fairness with each person asserting that their sense of justice is the one that society ought to satisfy. It makes more sense to examine an issue like this from a perspective of utility: the internet is incredib…

"Addressing it as a common need and making sure that everyone can accesses it is not inherently unreasonable." There are public libraries in nearly every city with free Internet access.

Free Internet Access with privacy?

Re: Finland makes 1Mb broadband access a legal right (2009)

#40

Post by Joakal »

glaze wrote: post #33
AlisdairO wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the Finns have a different idea of what makes a good society than you?

As a Finn, I don't like the idea that other people can vote to take away some individual's rights, in this case, ISP's.

What rights are taken from ISPs?
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