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Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

arstechnica.com

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Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#61

Post by cal85 »

readyman wrote: post #58
Qwertious wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird how that list doesn't include the state, coinage, or farming. Or animal domestication. Or smelting iron. Or steam engines and machine tools. Computers are basically irrelevant but networking would be huge - being able to communicate near-instantly across large distances was possibly the single biggest limiting factor for the size of empires in agrarian societies (other than food).

> being able to communicate near-instantly across large distances was possibly the single biggest limiting factor for the size of empires in agrarian societies Seemingly, yes, but this hasn't been proven quite yet. The American empire appears to be losing dominance since the proliferation of the internet, for example. However, the American empire certainly gained tremendous power from broadcasted electronic mediums.

This would only be relevant if the American empire were losing dominance to rivals that didn’t also have computing and networking etc.

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#62

Post by tdudhhu »

ahazred8ta wrote: post #31
pavel_lishin wrote: post #8

Obligatory link to Primitive Technology on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@primitivetechnology9550 Although, he doesn't recreate past technology - I think he researches what technology could have existed, given the knowledge of our time. Things like his blowers, and his iron smelting processes. Of course, there's only so much you can do with rocks & sticks, so most of what he makes ends up being pretty similar to h…

There was one fellow who smelted copper ore and tin ore, made copper wire and a vinegar battery, and made a working telegraph that could have been built any time since 3000 BC.

Why 3000 BC?

Isn't it true that if we applied today's knowledge it could also be built millions of years ago?

I can understand it means something like: it could be built with tools and materials they had 3000 BC, but isn't it also true that knowledge was able to create different tools and different materials?

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#63

Post by zdragnar »

schoen wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make use of telegraphy, one would need to know how to read & write. The most useful inventions in history: 1. reading & writing 2. paper 3. printing press 4. computers & networking Note that they're all about preserving and sharing information.

Now I wonder whether a rhythm-based writing system could have been developed ahead of pictographic and alphabetic writing if preliterate people had had a telegraph. They might have started off developing rhythm conventions based on particular songs, or something. I guess signal drums predate writing in many places and successfully use rhythm to convey information over long distances. I'm not sure whether any that don…

We have always had musical notation, though what we have today is much more complex than any surviving records from clay tablets and such of ancient times.

The idea of communicating sounds via physical marks was there, but it clearly lost out- why bother writing a message that needs to be sounded out, then translated to a spoken language, when you can skip the translation step with something glottographic?

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#64

Post by QuesnayJr »

wazoox wrote: post #4

Experimental archaeology is at least 50 year old, but they're presenting that like it's brand new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_archaeology

There's got to be some miscommunication between the researchers and the journalists as to the contribution. I know anthropology undergraduates who years ago had whole courses where they had to make and use their own stone tools.

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#67

Post by Aeolun »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #8

Obligatory link to Primitive Technology on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@primitivetechnology9550 Although, he doesn't recreate past technology - I think he researches what technology could have existed, given the knowledge of our time. Things like his blowers, and his iron smelting processes. Of course, there's only so much you can do with rocks & sticks, so most of what he makes ends up being pretty similar to h…

It’s crazy to think that fully one 800th of the world is subscribed to this channel. And that’s only the shbscribers, not the number of people that have actually seen these videos.

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#68

Post by [deleted] »

schoen wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make use of telegraphy, one would need to know how to read & write. The most useful inventions in history: 1. reading & writing 2. paper 3. printing press 4. computers & networking Note that they're all about preserving and sharing information.

Now I wonder whether a rhythm-based writing system could have been developed ahead of pictographic and alphabetic writing if preliterate people had had a telegraph. They might have started off developing rhythm conventions based on particular songs, or something. I guess signal drums predate writing in many places and successfully use rhythm to convey information over long distances. I'm not sure whether any that don…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#69

Post by defrost »

tame3902 wrote: post #60
defrost wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why people char coal and make bloomery furnaces from clay | mud | etc.

Nitpick: Bloomeries generally don't melt iron. They are just hot enough to reduce iron oxide to iron. Melting iron is a relatively young technology. From Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomery ): "Inside the furnace, carbon monoxide from the incomplete combustion of the charcoal reduces the iron oxides in the ore to metallic iron without melting the ore; this allows the bloomery to operate at lower temper…

It's a fair point but pragmatically a nitpick indeed - for a full four thousand years people have worked iron into tools without melting it through the wonder of a chemical reaction that sidesteps the issue.

While we're here I guess we should also point out that glass blowing furnaces don't melt silicon, they dissolve it into a flux of other stuff to make a gooey glob we call molten glass.

The original question posed was "who first decided to melt the rocks and get the iron" .. technically the rock was smelted not melted in order to remove the rock and get the iron.

The first quibble was that iron isn't melted out, my response was that a bloomery is used instead, my bad for not clarifying that they are used to smelt and not melt.

Re: Scientists built their own Stone Age tools to figure out how they were used

#70

Post by emilfihlman »

WalterBright wrote: post #32
ahazred8ta wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was one fellow who smelted copper ore and tin ore, made copper wire and a vinegar battery, and made a working telegraph that could have been built any time since 3000 BC.

To make use of telegraphy, one would need to know how to read & write. The most useful inventions in history: 1. reading & writing 2. paper 3. printing press 4. computers & networking Note that they're all about preserving and sharing information.

You are overestimating.

Even if there was a working phone network and phones when we were hunter gatherers, this wouldn't allow us to grow cities.

All inventions work off each other, but if we count them without prerequisites:

Agriculture (farming / animal domestication etc), ie being able to quite reliably produce a lot of food, is the most important innovation and invention for humanity.

Next, still not information but the industrial revolution and engines and mass scale production. Without this we would depend on humans and animals to do the work, and I for one do not like the idea of a modern slave industry, but even beyond that we couldn't use economies of scale, which actually allows for absolutely bonkers progress.

Then perhaps writing and reading, and networking.

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