The Myth of Scarcity and Its Threats to Human Society [pdf] (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Myth of Scarcity and Its Threats to Human Society [pdf] (2023)

#161

Post by pdonis » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 2:42 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #152

pdonis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developing countries receive aid for geopolitical reasons The point isn't why those countries agree to receive aid, it's why there is political support in developed countries for sending it. If the paper's hypothetical were true, that people in developed countries prefer to increase their own personal happiness instead of helping others, the aid would never be sent because voters in developed countries would never…

At the macro scale they are the same thing The failure of direct aid as described is entirely inclusive of all actors priorities involved. There is no true global cooperative desire to solve these problems so it doesn’t happen, and these signaling actions - which is what they are - are known to be ineffective. CFCs and Polio were eradicated. For all its flaws were pulled together to get through COVID. We can actually…

> There is no true global cooperative desire to solve these problems so it doesn’t happen

If we include the corrupt governments of the countries where people are poor and starving in "global", yes, this is true.

I'm not sure "fear of scarcity" is a good description of why those corrupt governments don't have this "cooperative desire", though.

> these signaling actions - which is what they are - are known to be ineffective

Here we agree, yes.

Re: The Myth of Scarcity and Its Threats to Human Society [pdf] (2023)

#162

Post by 6510 » Tue, Mar 05, 2024, 10:57 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #23

Excited to answer any questions and happily surprised to see it on the front page. Thank you. I noted elsewhere that this is undergoing major revisions ahead of submissions to IJPS[1]. Riane Eisler read it and asked that I submit. I started working with a co-author a few months ago and he is a published anthropologist so my hope is to have a version done just focusing on the core claims this year. [1] https://pubs.li…

Very enjoyable read.

> ...embedded in prehistoric storytelling ...

I think worse, embedded in our very vocabulary. In Dutch for example "community" or "gemeinschaft" translates as (the never used word) "gemeenschap" which besides many vague things also means having sex. When used it mostly refers to location rather than ideas or activity. "club" is only used to describe a group of people with shared characteristics humorously. In contrast, if we are going to sail a boat every detail is enshrined in exact terminology as if it's a DSL designed for that purpose.

With the development and expansion of reading and writing our vocabulary "froze" in time and lost much of its dynamic adaptation.

> Economic, Social and Political thought since the Quaternary Megafauna Extinction, assumes inescapable scarcity as a fundamental truth, and assumes in-group resource hoarding behaviors are perpetually adaptive.

I would extend it to include Scientific scarcity? and perhaps even Educational and Technological? My mind has a hard time fitting the 3 under Economic, Social or Political banners. Then again, under which would one fit the Attention market?

> Quaternary Megafauna Extinction (QME) was the well documented, extremely rapid crash in available calories, beginning around 50,000 BC....

If it happened it will happen again(?) despite optimizing for the myth we seem insanely unfit to deal with something like that.

Re: The Myth of Scarcity and Its Threats to Human Society [pdf] (2023)

#163

Post by watwut » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 11:16 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #99

watwut wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that lowers childbirths is education of women, in particular education about birth control. That plus economic opportunities for women. Nothing to do with consumerist media, just letting women know how to prevent 5th child.

But economic opportunities for women in no way implies that these economic opportunities must preclude time for raising children. It's entirely conceivable for part-time jobs to exist, or for other economic setups that allow for maximizing the workforce while still promoting children. This is a consequence of our economic and cultural systems, not because women working somehow become incapable of having children.

These were simply statistics. When women know how to prevent having many kids, when they are in position to make independent decisions, they want to have limited amount of kids.

Women with part time jobs and time for childcare still have easier time with 3 children rather then 5.

Re: The Myth of Scarcity and Its Threats to Human Society [pdf] (2023)

#164

Post by choxi » Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 1:12 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #23

Excited to answer any questions and happily surprised to see it on the front page. Thank you. I noted elsewhere that this is undergoing major revisions ahead of submissions to IJPS[1]. Riane Eisler read it and asked that I submit. I started working with a co-author a few months ago and he is a published anthropologist so my hope is to have a version done just focusing on the core claims this year. [1] https://pubs.li…

You might be interested in Randall Carlson, he believes the megafauna extinction was tied to a global cataclysm and has speculated that it and its aftermath essentially traumatized human societies in a way that still persists today