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Dress code: blue tie and male

elektronista.dk

41–50 of 148 posts

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#41
The crazy part of this is it seems once he started spouting this crap, no-one from Dell pulled him off stage and did any damage control! So people say "let's not judge Dell," etc but we can judge their employees' lack of action.

If someone speaks like this at an event I'm running and I'm within earshot, I'm getting in their face, no matter how famous the speaker. I'd hope other organizers and chairs would act similarly.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#42
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about the same Mads who created BlogEngine.Net? Just curious? I would hope not, but if so, my entire image of him got thrown out the door.

We are not, completely unrelated. The surnames are spelled differently too - Christensen (show-off) vs. Kristensen (BlogEngine).

Thanks for that.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many times are we going to keep hearing the non-apology apology: "We are sorry if some were offended..."? About as many times as we make powerful people apologise in public, especially when they're not really feeling guilty. And it's not always in that form, sometimes it's closer to Clinton's "mistakes were made". While most non-apologies are pretty standard, there is some variation and innovation.

The thing I don't understand about this is that it seems to me that when public figures, companies, etc come out with genuine apologies, it ends up being a net positive. They garner respect from their friends and their enemies. They get good press. They often manage to repair most of the relationships that were in question. It almost seems like that even if someone were not feeling guilty, the logical thing would be…

> It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one.

This is the reason why I think non-apologies are a genuinely advantageous long-term strategy, especially for men in position of power. I don't believe it to be an entirely concious strategy resulting from some cold calculation but it seems common among leaders, from soccer team captains to presidents. Maybe some alpha/beta atavism.

That is not to say that it's optimal. Throwing a sincere apology every once in a while, especially when it's sincere, may work well.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#44
post #10

I'll keep an open mind about the company for now, because I've not found their side of the story (this occurred a few weeks ago), but Michael Dell should personally and sincerely apologize for his company. This doesn't match at all what I have long understood to be their internal culture.

If this is true, how were people not walking out? “The IT business is one of the last frontiers that manages to keep women out. The quota of women to men in your business is sound and healthy” he says. “What are you actually doing here?” he adds to the few women who are actually present in the room. Are you kidding me?

Honestly to me that sounds like a sarcastic joke. Surely he can't be serious. Regardless, that kind of "comedy" is wholly inappropriate for a corporate event.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#45
Wait, so is he a comedian MC'ing the event? If it's a roast or something, and he's poking at the fact that there's not a lot of women in tech:

The IT business is one of the last frontiers that manages to keep women out. The quota of women to men in your business is sound and healthy

As in, what are you guys doing to cause not a lot of women to be in IT. It's almost as if there's a quota!

If that's the case it's still terrible and tasteless, but at least sort of comprehendible. If he's serious and those are his actual beliefs, the situation is so far outside the range of reasonable corporate behavior, I don't know what to think. I'm just perplexed, really.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#46
post #25

How many times are we going to keep hearing the non-apology apology: "We are sorry if some were offended..."? I am so tired of it, it has become a cliche. When did the business world/lawyers decide this was the optimal legal response to customers? My blood boils every time I read it as it is the most disingenuous, calculated, shallow tripe you can trot out when you fuck up. What ever happened to just owning up to you…

I actually think there are lots of cases where it is perfectly warranted.

It's a big world; if you are on the world stage, it is quite difficult not to offend somebody no matter what you do. There are experts in the fields of diplomacy and etiquette who devote their careers to getting this stuff right, and usually even then there is someone offended about efforts to be so "proper". ;-)

So, I think it is a perfectly valid apology if basically the only thing you regretted about your actions was that it made someone upset. Most people don't get off on pissing other people off, but they do want to live their life and go about their business. That apology is perfect for that context.

What's freaky is when it is used for cases where you'd think there'd be a lot more that someone ought to be sorry for. What's even freakier is when someone everyone pretends it is apologizing for more than it is.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#48
post #31
post #17

Just to give a short recap of who this Mads Christensen guy is, coming from a Dane: His tag line is "Denmarks big show-off" and he basically markets himself as a provocative bragging show-off, always with the rolexes, sports cars, slick hair and better-than-thy appearance. He's not perceived as a comedian but rather as an entertainer hired for various corporate events - some obviously less successful than others. Unl…

So this would be the equivalent of someone complaining about a popular US comedian well known for making racist jokes?

He is not a comedian, more like a fashion, lifestyle and relationship expert. When he says that men should learn to say "shut up, bitch" it is not intended as a joke but as legitimate relationship advice. His viewpoints are well known, and Dell got exactly what they could expect. What is surprising is that Dell thinks this kind of relationship-advice is appropriate entertainment for a business conference.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#49
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this would be the equivalent of someone complaining about a popular US comedian well known for making racist jokes?

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's explicitly known for making racist jokes. He is however known for (and markets himself as) being politically incorrect - which may very well include both racism and chauvinism.

He did get into trouble for saying that "some negroes do look like monkeys" on national radio. But generally he is more known for controversial relationship advice and armchair heroics.

Re: Dress code: blue tie and male

#50
post #46
post #25

How many times are we going to keep hearing the non-apology apology: "We are sorry if some were offended..."? I am so tired of it, it has become a cliche. When did the business world/lawyers decide this was the optimal legal response to customers? My blood boils every time I read it as it is the most disingenuous, calculated, shallow tripe you can trot out when you fuck up. What ever happened to just owning up to you…

I actually think there are lots of cases where it is perfectly warranted. It's a big world; if you are on the world stage, it is quite difficult not to offend somebody no matter what you do. There are experts in the fields of diplomacy and etiquette who devote their careers to getting this stuff right, and usually even then there is someone offended about efforts to be so "proper". ;-) So, I think it is a perfectly v…

So, I think it is a perfectly valid apology if basically the only thing you regretted about your actions was that it made someone upset

This is what makes it a non-apology.

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