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Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

kickstarter.com

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Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#31

Post by modeless »

Zirro wrote: post #26
modeless wrote: post #24

This is a really interesting method of funding a software project. It doesn't seem sustainable though. People might (maybe) be willing to fund a "Light Table 2.0" project but certainly nobody would care to fund an "ongoing maintenance and bugfixes for Light Table 1.0" project. Perhaps the Kickstarter model could be adapted to fund maintenance and bugfixes too. Popular open source projects always have the problem that…

I may have missed something, but I believe the point is to get it developed with the help of Kickstarter-money in the first place and then sell through the normal channels to fund future development. As incentive for backers, they most likely get away with a cheaper price than the one we'll see later when the first version is out for sale.

It's not entirely clear how it can require a license and be open source at the same time. I suppose we'll see how open it really is when it's released. But selling licenses doesn't preclude also having a way to pay for bug fixing priority.

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#32

Post by chadv »

vibrunazo wrote: post #10

I'm complete ignorant at programming languages. But I've seen this video a few times, and it still seem like each feature are things I already do every single day of my life as an Android developer. Live documentation, organizing your work around functions, watching values and expressions change on debug etc. These are all things I already do every day. So suppose lighttable adds support for Android development. How…

I don't want to talk for Chris Granger, but my intuition tells me that the features you listed are things he considers to be the baseline for a modern editor and are not the true reason he's building Light Table. I think his goals are more about making a real product with the capabilities of the demo IDE Bret Victor showed in his Inventing on Principle talk https://vimeo.com/36579366 Eclipse is nowhere near this today, and perhaps it never will be. I'm backing Light Table because I think Chris has a shot of getting there.

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#33

Post by Zirro »

modeless wrote: post #31
Zirro wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may have missed something, but I believe the point is to get it developed with the help of Kickstarter-money in the first place and then sell through the normal channels to fund future development. As incentive for backers, they most likely get away with a cheaper price than the one we'll see later when the first version is out for sale.

It's not entirely clear how it can require a license and be open source at the same time. I suppose we'll see how open it really is when it's released. But selling licenses doesn't preclude also having a way to pay for bug fixing priority.

Being open-source and selling doesn't have to exclude each other. You just have to trust the buyers moral, as in, if they're using it to create things they get paid for, they also pay for a license of your application.

Also, since when has having a closed source ever prevented piracy anyway?

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#34

Post by jules »

Zirro wrote: post #33
modeless wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not entirely clear how it can require a license and be open source at the same time. I suppose we'll see how open it really is when it's released. But selling licenses doesn't preclude also having a way to pay for bug fixing priority.

Being open-source and selling doesn't have to exclude each other. You just have to trust the buyers moral, as in, if they're using it to create things they get paid for, they also pay for a license of your application. Also, since when has having a closed source ever prevented piracy anyway?

That's a really big if. If it's truly open source then there will also be multiple contributors. Who do you pay? People always say this "open source doesn't mean you're not allowed to sell it!" and that's technically correct, but I don't think this strategy has ever been demonstrated to be economically feasible.

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#35

Post by [deleted] »

vmind wrote: post #22
jf wrote: post #9

If anybody else is interested, here is a Web Numbr graph of the funding for Light Table over time: http://webnumbr.com/light-table-pledged (Sadly, I didn't think of setting this up until it was really far along).

There's also Kicktraq, which has a longer history and a rough trend to total. http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/ibdknox/light-table/ (webnumbr looks really nice for watching random pages that don't have dedicated trackers, though)

[deleted]

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#36

Post by tonyarkles »

lnanek wrote: post #16
vibrunazo wrote: post #10

I'm complete ignorant at programming languages. But I've seen this video a few times, and it still seem like each feature are things I already do every single day of my life as an Android developer. Live documentation, organizing your work around functions, watching values and expressions change on debug etc. These are all things I already do every day. So suppose lighttable adds support for Android development. How…

You sound dead on to me. Java tooling is basically light years ahead of JavaScript, just because it's so much easier to write for a static language. Most people don't learn all the advanced features of Eclipse and other IDEs and debugging until they are stuck writing in them for years and years anyway. I know how to do things in hot keys in Eclipse that I don't even know how to do otherwise. Hot code replace and debu…

I've done development in Eclipse off and on for a few years. Some Python (PyDev extensions), some Java (Android, school assignments, a desktop app). I haven't tried it all that recently, but one of my biggest complaints has been performance. I end up turning off a significant number of the features that people talk about for Eclipse, simply because they make the environment run too slowly. It's not as if I'm using underpowered machines either...

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#37

Post by leif »

jules wrote: post #34
Zirro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being open-source and selling doesn't have to exclude each other. You just have to trust the buyers moral, as in, if they're using it to create things they get paid for, they also pay for a license of your application. Also, since when has having a closed source ever prevented piracy anyway?

That's a really big if. If it's truly open source then there will also be multiple contributors. Who do you pay? People always say this "open source doesn't mean you're not allowed to sell it!" and that's technically correct, but I don't think this strategy has ever been demonstrated to be economically feasible.

Red hat is a billion dollar company.

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#38

Post by DLwdTxdU6smHQA »

ibdknox wrote: post #2

I've been a little quiet lately as I've been working on the next demo before the end of the Kickstarter. Based on the reactions I've gotten so far, I think you guys are in for a treat :)

I'm excited that the goal is reached. One thought: I just saw your "We made it" blogpost via planet.clojure.in. May i suggest that you post it as an update on kickstarter?

I think most people on kickstarter expect and enjoy when the project author "celebrates" the reached goal with them. In addition the news about the 2nd demo is remarkable.

Btw any forecasts as to when the demo is going to go public?

Re: Light Table reaches funding goal of $200k

#39

Post by jules »

leif wrote: post #37
jules wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really big if. If it's truly open source then there will also be multiple contributors. Who do you pay? People always say this "open source doesn't mean you're not allowed to sell it!" and that's technically correct, but I don't think this strategy has ever been demonstrated to be economically feasible.

Red hat is a billion dollar company.

Then again Red Hat's value add is the support. Red Hat's business model is not to rely on its customers' altruism. There are various reasons to dislike such a model, especially for an IDE, not the least of which is that the point of a well-designed IDE like LightTable is that it's easy to use and does not require a support contract. Being a support company creates the conflicting incentive that the software should not be too easy to use. Furthermore, support is not fun; you need to be a big company to earn a significant amount of money, because revenue is directly tied to man hours. Making new and exciting IDEs is fun, and revenue can be more directly tied to the value you produce, rather than the hours you put in.
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